Post: #1

Now bear this one probably hits like a kipper, but could be fun to expand on. Shame I can't have any core cav

Vampire
Dreadknight, infinite hatred, talisman of endurance

Core,
30 ghouls, Ghast.
I know this works out about 2pts shy of the 250 min but you have permission to slap your opponent if they complain.

Special
10 black knights, com
Banner of hellish vigour

Rare
4 blood knights
(The vamp if you never guessed will go here)

In total it comes to 993, feel free to work out how to spend the last 7pts.
Or rip this apart and come up with your own list based on a cavalry theme.
Did think of dropping the bloods for a vargualf, also the ghouls for skellys. And shave the vamp down to add a necro or whight.

So what do you think.

Post: #2

Looks good, if it works. Having such a small number of units/models makes the list seem a bit hit and miss to me. Playtesting should reveal whether or not that is actually the case.

Post: #3

Shooting could be a problem. No banner of the Blood Keep? You'll have to use terrain rather heavily so that your Blood Knights aren't eaten alive. And you may want to go with the Blood Drinker to keep them up and running, unless you trust your Vampire with Invocation Spamming.

And are you planning on deploying your Ghouls as a horde? I can only imagine that you do simply because of the small number of models on the field.

Post: #4

wont the ghouls stay behind since all the vampires will be in the front?
your blood knights will face real problem against shooting armies.
untill the ghouls arrive to somewhat relieve you from the enemy units, your cavarly will have been destroyed..

Post: #5

Unfortunately your correct. And the reason for this is no cav in our core. The best I can think of is to jiggle some pts and get a necro with VDM and cast that on the ghouls.
As I said this army is hit and miss but welcome any suggestions of peoples thoughts.

Post: #6

you could do that. the banner of blood keep would also help but you will have to cut some things from your list.

Post: #7

Quote:Core,
30 ghouls, Ghast.
I know this works out about 2pts shy of the 250 min but you have permission to slap your opponent if they complain.

So what do you think.

Well, I like the concept and I think it would be fun, but on the same token I highly disagree with this statement. Saying it's ok to be 2 points shy on your core requirement is equivalent to saying it's ok to be 2 points over on your point total. Neither is OK, and IMHO you need to get the list reworked to include the minimum requirement of core troops.

There's no difference between saying this and saying that in 7th edition it's ok to only run one core block, because hey, you're only 1 short, right? That's such a small number it doesn't really matter.

Post: #8

Well 'ass to mouth weapon' (I presume this is what it stands for) 2pts is only 2pts and I would say that really isn't going to ruin the game. And to compare it to 7th rules on core troops is ridiculous because a core choice would cost more than 2pts. My friends and I generally run with 'up to 5pts over is fine' if I have learnt anything about GW over the past 15years of playing on and off, its about having fun not stuffing the rulebook up your ....
Obviously we are playing in a friendly environment and are little relaxed, so if I was going to take this to compo (which I wouldn't) then yes I would stick a bit more rigidly to the rules. (Funny no one else has mentioned this statement before, so if you to are upset that I am 2pts shy then post your disgust to)
Apart from that 'atmaweapon' how would you jiggle the points to make this a viable list.

(I apologise if anyone is offended by my rant back)

Post: #9

(09-07-2010 07:27 PM)snowblood Wrote:  Well 'ass to mouth weapon' (I presume this is what it stands for)

Quite frankly, that's childish and absolutely obnoxious, but I'll humor you anyway.

Quote:2pts is only 2pts and I would say that really isn't going to ruin the game. And to compare it to 7th rules on core troops is ridiculous because a core choice would cost more than 2pts. My friends and I generally run with 'up to 5pts over is fine' if I have learnt anything about GW over the past 15years of playing on and off, its about having fun not stuffing the rulebook up your ....

It's great you run in a more casual circle where you and your personal friends have decided that this is fine, but to imply that it's the generally accepted standard, and that you should slap your opponent in the face if they disagree with you breaking a rule is childish. My friends have decided, like most who live in my state that I play with, that the best way to keep the game "fun" is to stick fairly rigidly to the rules, which avoids someone feeling like they got jobbed at the end of a 3 hour game by 5 points here or a magic item there. I've seen one model make the difference enough times to be in this camp.

Quote:Apart from that 'atmaweapon' how would you jiggle the points to make this a viable list.

Drop the magic standard on the black knights and add 2 ghouls, and give your vampire the ironcurse icon. Your Black Knights are going to be charging something on turn one or two anyway, and by simply not making bad charges you should be able to keep them close enough to the blood knights/your general to not need it.

This would also also give the added benefit of giving your Blood Knights a 6+ ward save against war machinery.

Post: #10

I am sorry to hear you where slightly upset by my comments, and that also you run in a circle that play in a regimented style. I'm not sure on where you are as you don't have a flag, but nearly everyone I have spoken to or played in stores are quite fine with this and as long as you declare 'look fella this unit just falls beneath the minimum pts by 2' they are always fine. And if you say 'hey look I got this theme I'm going for' or 'hey I've overspent by 3pts are you cool with this' they always say 'hey cool with me'.
And if they subsequently lose, it is a little jibe about 'well if you hadn't of spent those extra points' or 'well your army isn't tourney legal anyway, so' but we still had fun and enjoyed ourselves.
I know that sometimes a single model can turn a game. In 40K I have held up a unit with 1 model, for just enough time for support to get there.
Anyway this has got off the beaten track. All I will say is try it for a change. Just say look I wanna try this list, it still needs work but I'm just a pt or 2 under/over. And I bet they won't mind.
At the end of the day, I'm sure if I turned to my regular gamers and say look I want a cav army do you mind if I use dire wolves as my minimum.(Not that I have that many wolves) they would just say cool, I have this theme I was working on wanna can I give it a go.
I do like the ideas you put in. Maybe if I dropped the units down to
15 ghouls and ghast
it would be better pts wise to reach the min.

Post: #11

(09-07-2010 08:18 PM)snowblood Wrote:  I am sorry to hear you where slightly upset by my comments, and that also you run in a circle that play in a regimented style. I'm not sure on where you are as you don't have a flag, but nearly everyone I have spoken to or played in stores are quite fine with this and as long as you declare 'look fella this unit just falls beneath the minimum pts by 2' they are always fine. And if you say 'hey look I got this theme I'm going for' or 'hey I've overspent by 3pts are you cool with this' they always say 'hey cool with me'.
And if they subsequently lose, it is a little jibe about 'well if you hadn't of spent those extra points' or 'well your army isn't tourney legal anyway, so' but we still had fun and enjoyed ourselves.
I know that sometimes a single model can turn a game. In 40K I have held up a unit with 1 model, for just enough time for support to get there.
Anyway this has got off the beaten track. All I will say is try it for a change. Just say look I wanna try this list, it still needs work but I'm just a pt or 2 under/over. And I bet they won't mind.
At the end of the day, I'm sure if I turned to my regular gamers and say look I want a cav army do you mind if I use dire wolves as my minimum.(Not that I have that many wolves) they would just say cool, I have this theme I was working on wanna can I give it a go.
I do like the ideas you put in. Maybe if I dropped the units down to
15 ghouls and ghast
it would be better pts wise to reach the min.

well this responce seems not childish but quite mature to me.
Atmaweapon, regarding the slap. i think that this was just a joke, not something to take seriously
so relax, no need to be offended

Post: #12

speaking of which has anybody noticed that the Vampire lord in pg 64 of the book is 5 points over in his vampiric powers???
total 105:
dark acolyte
forbidden lore
summon creatures of the night
suppernatural horror
i'm not kidding, i double checked to be sure
LOL!!!
That makes the list illegal right???

Post: #13

If this was at our local store you would be asked to either fix the missing two points or leave. the point totals is important. If everyone was allowed to take a extra 2-5 points it could really unbalance things. Its great that those people you play will accept the illegal list. I would personally rework it to be legal. with 7 points left over drop having a ghast and take one more ghoul to make it legal.

On a side not on the list itself.

I have seen calvery armies die time and again especially in vampire counts. 5 blood knights are not worth the time to take. 5 knights into someones front ranks or to missle fire they die. This weekend I had the pleasure of watching my skeletons with spears. Yes my skeletons Kill a group of 5 chaos knights. Our blood knights are not much diffrent. So two things to fix this drop them and add more black knights or drop some black knights to increase the blood knights numbers

With wolves no longer counting as core requirments like they did in 6th a all calvery force isnt going to happen. least until we get a new book. That is just my feelings on it.

Post: #14

Well I didn't think I would cause such a kurfuffle (if that's how you spell it). Obviously this was meant to be bit of a fun list not anything that anyone would field unless at times where you say 'hey look fancy a cav battle' you take your horses and cold ones and I will field mine, let's theme this as apart from just playing to win, and see what happens.
Also I'm sure there are some scenarios I remember where the pts are off. Defender has 1K and the attacker has 1.250k or something like that. This makes for a strategic challenge for the defender.
Any way enough already about points over/under and discuss cav armies.
How about swapping the blood knights for a coach, its a cav model in fairness, that gives a bit more to play with, just gotta figure out the vamp. Maybe by himself as a black knight figure following the black knights charging at the same time and issuing a challenge. The coach could then really turn this game with some good powerdice rolls.

Post: #15

I have to say as a old GW staff member and long time gamer. Points allowance is very important, which is why when we used to do lists for new players you make sure there legal and fair. In gaming in social games now everyone i knw is under points normally i havnt seen anyone over points for a long time as its just not right IMHO.

Post: #16

personally I don't think a calvary based army for VC is going to be viable until you are in excess of 3000 points. Un suported the Blood Knights can get held up and if you only have one rank they might well lose combat res, and with your main vamp in it they have a sign saying "shoot us from long range" on them. As to this second point thats raising about points over points under.....

@Santawraith. I know sometimes there are some real hardcore, egotistical, rule-worshiping, jobsworths working in your local GW who forget that the game is ment to be enjoyed. Saying your army list must be a pythagorian precission mathmatical scripture is stupid. even worse that if you tried to mediate this point with your opponent at the begging in a gentlemanly fahsion of "my core percentage is 24.7% is that a problem?" and the staff intervening to say either change that or leave, is well...... baffling. I think I would leave. I've paid for the models and me and the person I'm asking this question to are playing the game, if he said no and i couldn't reason with him i wouldn't field it. I'm actually mid way through a 2750 point battle and my points are 2751, is there a real suggestion that in non tornament (firendly) battles this is considered highly unfair and unbalanced? seriously?

Post: #17

Yes it is a freindly game with rules. If i build a army list to fallow the rules and restrict my selections based on it then I feel my opponet should do the same.

What if I took powers or items that put my lord over by 2-3pts most people would feel its unfair. I have a diffrent look on it I guess due to people adding extra's to there army because its so important to win.

At our local store all lists are turned in for a look over for tournaments and events. In just freindly games no it isnt a problem long as your opponent feels it isnt. Personally even in freindly games the army has to be fallowing the rules unless we agreed otherwise beforehand. I watched to many people field extra be it items or full regiments and say well it wont make a diffrence. And that is right if I catch ya it wont make a diffrence cause Ill refuse to play. If I fallow the rules I think my opponet should too. If not then what is the sense of playing if we are just gonna make up the rules as we see fit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a legal version of almost the same list

31 ghouls with ghast. 256 pts

10 black knights with command 305
With the barding removed.

4 blood knights 240
Champian

vampire 180
mounted
dreadnight
tailisman of endurance
infinite hatred

This leaves 19 pts left over to add something

Post: #18

Why not put your vampire on foot in the horde? I feel like at this points levels the calvary should do fine on their own if you maneuver right and the ghouls could use with having a constant source of marching and an extra killy guy. Something like

Vampire
infinite hatred
flayed hauberk, sword of might, seed of rebirth
-175-

True he's a little less directly protected but he's better protected from shooting (remember you need 4 RnF models not including champs for the unit to absorb all the hits) also he'll help out the ghouls a whole lot. Your ghouls will now be able to take on the enemy's elite units especially when you swing the blood knights in for the flank.

Post: #19

So here goes the next attempt, I like the idea of the vamp in the ghouls altho not a in keeping with the knightly theme, but hey here is list 1.

Heroes 200
Vampire
Red fury
Armour of fortune, sword of striking

Core 256 (over the 25% min)
31 ghouls + ghast 256 (over the 25%)

Special 329pts
10 black knights, barding, mus/standard
Banner of hellish vigour

Rare 200pts
4 blood knight

This leaves 15pts to do something with like add a champ to the black knights but being 16pts would the list at 1001pts, but I'm sure your opponent wouldn't mind if they do kick 'em in the nads (only joking I don't want another argument)

Or this is a different take on it

Heroes 220pts
Vampire on hellsteed
Red fury, armour of fortune, sword of striking

Core 252pts
64 zombies + mus (brentonian men at arm models)

Special 525pts
17 black knights, barding, mus+standard
Banner of hellish vigour

The basic idea is that the zombies are just shambling forward.
The vamp is flying around challenging people
The black knights are running people through