Post: #1

Do models w/ASF and ASL still re-roll misses with a sufficiently high initiative?

Post: #2

No. Rulebook page 66

Quote:If a model has both this rule and always strikes first, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's initiative.

Post: #3

(01-20-2012 06:02 PM)Vampire Ron Wrote: ASF-and-ASL?pid=236746#pid236746" class="quick_jump"> No. Rulebook page 66

Quote:If a model has both this rule and always strikes first, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's initiative.

I read that and thought they were merely talking about when they strike. The re-roll is specifically addressed in the ASF/ASF rule, but not in the latter.

I guess the reading is that "cancel" means the entirety of the rule?

Post: #4

(01-20-2012 06:02 PM)Vampire Ron Wrote: ASF-and-ASL?pid=236746#pid236746" class="quick_jump"> 

Quote:neither applies

Neither applies... RAW maybe if you're very sneaky, RAI definitely not.

Post: #5

Except for Bat's ASL vs. HE Speed of Asuryan.

That's a different clause.

Post: #6

What do you mean? Speed of Asuryan is ASF, just you ignore ASL from Great Weapons.

Post: #7

Speed of Asuryan is not just an ASF.
It is: All High Elves have ASF, regardless of the weapon they are wielding.

So they ignore the ASL rules of great weapons.
They re roll to hit if they have high In.

Post: #8

(01-21-2012 07:36 AM)Ameth Wrote: ASF-and-ASL?pid=236933#pid236933" class="quick_jump"> Speed of Asuryan is not just an ASF.
It is: All High Elves have ASF, regardless of the weapon they are wielding.

So they ignore the ASL rules of great weapons.
They re roll to hit if they have high In.

This.

An example would be:

High Elf Swordmasters charge a unit of Skeleton Warriors. Due to Speed of Asuryan they would strike first, and would get re-rolls to hit as the initiative value for SMs is 5 and Skeletons is 2.

If they were charging a unit of Skeletons with a Vamp Lord with I7, for example, then they would still strike first, just wouldn't get the re-rolls.

Post: #9

is this correct? I thought the elves just wouldn't get rerolls if targeting the vampire but still get them if attacking the skeletons?

Post: #10

(01-21-2012 01:41 PM)SnEaKyGiT Wrote: ASF-and-ASL?pid=237010#pid237010" class="quick_jump"> is this correct? I thought the elves just wouldn't get rerolls if targeting the vampire but still get them if attacking the skeletons?

Sorry I think I may have confused things.

The Elves would get re-rolls for all attacks directed against the Skeletons, but would not get to re-roll against the Vampire.

So basically:

Against Vamp = NO re-rolls
Against Skeles = Yes to re-rolls

Post: #11

and if bats are in the combat, strike in order of initiative and no re-rolls.

Post: #12

if Speed of Asuryan is what provides the ASF and the rule is if you have ASF and ASL ie from bats, then the to rules cancel each other, then does that not mean the that they are now subjected to Great Weapon penalties? units such as the Sword master and white lions?

Post: #13

You can't have multiples of the same rule applying at the same time, so no.

Post: #14

Also it doesn't cancel Speed of Asuryan, it just cancels ASF.

Post: #15

(01-31-2012 12:22 AM)Vampire Ron Wrote: ASF-and-ASL?pid=241983#pid241983" class="quick_jump"> You can't have multiples of the same rule applying at the same time, so no.

sorry i don't understand? i didn't mention any multiple rule

im saying is, if Speed of Asuryan provides ASF and the bats cancel the ASF hasnt that removed the Speed of Asuryan all together?

if you took the wording of the rule and removed the ASF part it would read, "High elves regardless of weapons" which makes no sense i dont think you can separate their ASF from the ignoring great weapon ASF; if you don't have one you don't have the other.?

Post: #16

ASF + ASL = Strike at initiative.

Having multiples of the same rule are irrelevant.

ASF + ASL + ASL + ASL + ASL still = Strike at initiative.

Post: #17

Ahh I get it now.

Thanks Bishop that makes total sence

Post: #18

That's too bad, I would really like it if swordmasters had ASL because of bats and greatweapons combined.

Post: #19

(01-31-2012 01:48 AM)Jacques Dauger De Cavoye Wrote: ASF-and-ASL?pid=242040#pid242040" class="quick_jump"> That's too bad, I would really like it if swordmasters had ASL because of bats and greatweapons combined.

You can just give yourself Always Strikes First with the Cart, or cast Mystifying Miasma. It'll be just as good.