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Advice on how to beat my army
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No Life King
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Post: #1
Advice on how to beat my army

hope this is in the right place.

So my gaming group is just starting to play games, and I've dicovered a disturbing trend. As the only person to have played warhammer in the past (6th edition) I am kicking ass and taking names. Since I'm the one who started the imetus to get my friends into warhammer I feel really bad when I trounce them and want to give them some solid advice. Thing is, I'm also unfamiliar with 8th edition so I don't know what specifics to give.

I have a lot of core, skelleys and zombies, with grave guard and ghosts/wraiths. My army sticks together by the general and bulks up with invokation, and by turn 3 its GG as the vampire led battleline hits and destroys everything, the ethereals having gummed up any flanks or support unit.

My primary opponent so far has been tomb kings, and his sphynx and chariots always get gummed up in my ethereal units and do nothing while I march up and kill his heirophant.

There is also a wood elf (minus the elf, its all trees) and an Ogre player in my group. I am not too worried about the ogre player, I think he will have an okay time of it, but wood elves dont even have a new book and are kinda considered a weak matchup.

Maybe we just have to play a bunch of games to get used to it, but I don't want to be "that guy" with the unbeatable army. What are some good points of general advice and specifically against my army?

"Stop Whining! All I did was cut off your stupid legs! Summon your demons! Transform yourself! Regenerate your legs! Stand up! Pick up your gun and attack me! Do something! The night is still so young, and the real fun is yet to start! Hurry, hurry, hurry, HURRY!!!"
04-12-2012 01:14 AM
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hornywingythingy
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Post: #2
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

Wood elves without elves is hard to win with (you can't take the staff of rerolling failed dispell attempts) though he could attempt to spam tree singing to cause damage to your units, difficult terrain tests and disrupt you. Tree kin are devastating too, and his tree spirits can wound your ethereal stuff since they have magic attacks, so they may do okay. Ogres should hurt you (if not, just advise him to take the hell heart)

Tk though, all I can advise would be war sphinxs, lots and lots of generic skellies, tomb guard with halberds and the special character ramhotep the visionary in them. Ambushing stuff like scorps and swarms would be good to kill off your corpse carts too.
04-12-2012 08:33 AM
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Seneschal
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Post: #3
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

For TK's, I'd always bring a casket as it can erase VC chaff rather easily with their low leadership, ethereals aren't safe from it either.
I tend to run 2 units of 20 archers and they rip through VC infantry, especially when I get a bubble smite off.
Necro Knights are easily the best unit in the army. A unit of 5 going up against anything with str 4 or less will do well, especially when buffed with lore of light. They work great against ghouls since their poison attacks eliminate sphinxes easily. A couple catapults are also quite good.

With Wood Elves, a Level 4 is a must, as is a BSB with asyendi's bane and hail of doom arrow (BSB upgrade makes him lose his bow!).
Glade Guard are quite possibly the best thing in that army and I always field at least 35 or so.
Lore of Life + 2 units of 6 treekin = happy wood elf player.

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04-15-2012 04:09 AM
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The Dread King
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Post: #4
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

Why not ref. games which they play each other and tell them when they're making mistakes. Explain to them how to combat your army and how to make a balanced, competitive list. Tell the ogre to take the greedy fist and hellheart combo, yes depite the controversy over the matter the cast-a-smashing-spell-on-a-vamp-lord-and watch-him-go-to-level-1 trick does work (although it is rather broken). Treemenn and treeman ancients can really hurt,especially in smaller games. TK should take lots of at least 6-strong units of necro knights-they can bash up grimgor and kill almost anything when held in numbers and get Ramhotep the Ridiculous to join the army. I suspect that Arkhan the Black is quite good, though I don't know for sure. Get magic attacks to combat ethereals and get that mad, ridiculously powerful TK magic item (the most powerful one in warhammer).

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04-20-2012 04:39 PM
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Lord Sathir
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Post: #5
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

Eeeuhm dreadking, which most powerfull TK item do you mean? As I have the book (and also play with them) and well in my opnion.. none of them is ridiculously powerfull...

But as a TK player I can advice that taking 2 screaming skull catapults can do wonders against ethreal and that in combination with a casket will create a powerfull magical long range combo which should kill at least some ethreals, also the catapults have flaming attacks making it quite usefull against stuff like Crypt Horrors and the Mortis Engine. (Note that the catapults work at their best when they are used as monster snipers, and mass low T units).
Also the TK spells are also quite good agaisnt most of VC, as the TK vortex is a S4 hit it would be a quite viable spell to use against ethreal units with only T3 like hexwraiths.

So things your friend should consider to put in his TK army are:
- casket of souls (lots of magic attacks against low LD units on a 48" range, hell yeah)
- screaming skull catapult (take atleast 2, they are not that expensive for what they can do)
- Hierotitan (build in bound spells from lore of light and lore of death, also boosts his magic phase)
- Se[ulchral stalker (can turn your ethreal units into sad, does not make a lot of sense but hey it works, and even then it perfect against low I units)

He also might want to add a lvl 1 liche priest of light in his army so that he can use the signature spell to banish any ethreal units coming his way.

Ogre Kingdom should not really have a big problem with VC as they got that bloody hellheart.. (hate it)
And they smash pretty much everything apart when in close combat.

Never played against or with Wood Elves so don't know anything about them.

Last but not least, make fun armies to play against.
I noticed as example with TK that when I placed my casket on the table that most of my opponents where like.... crap this shit again.
So now I start trying all kinds of different lists, my favorite so far is 2 necrolith colossus with bows, in combination with a untit 0f 12 Bowshabti's..
04-20-2012 08:06 PM
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bonesaww666
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Post: #6
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

TK should be a solid matchup against us, cheap chariot units as flank support for Warsphixes. Archers en mass are always nice and casket of souls everytime! The withering like spell combined with some 80 archers is always good for a laugh, I have left plague furnaces and Screaming bells alike lost and alone in the center of the battlefield with this combo. Sure you only hit on 5+ but one Smite Spell and few units can stand up to that many shots.
Does the TK player take any fast Cav? They can be great for redirecting your enemies hordes for convenient flank charges.(use as we use Dire Wolves)
Warsphixes should always be taken in 2's and run in tandem, both have the Breath Attack upgrade, use one in the first round and stomp with one if it hits try stomping with the other if it misses I usually go with normal attacks to increase combat rez. Against us these two should blast through damn near anything in a matter of 1-2turns.
2 Screaming Skulls (if I field one I usually take 2) for mass horde removal.
TK are a terrible beginners army, they allow for a slight margin of error to work well. But if he gets the hang of them he should be laughing all the way to the bank. I find them to be horrible all comers but if he is building an army specifically to kill VC he shouldn't have that hard of a time.
04-20-2012 08:13 PM
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bonesaww666
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Post: #7
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

WE's he should try some elves, the access to some of the most efficient fast Cav around means he can pepper you with arrows while stallig your battle line all day long. His main target should be you Vamps unit as if he can eliminate your march bubble and bog him down then he still stands a decent chance. Small units of archers smattered about the field are a nice touch as well and always flee as a charge reaction (unless he's going off the field) this will cause your army to sputter and stall.
Take a decent sized unit of Wardancers to bunker ones lord in, this is good for watch towers etc as well. Hide in forests and play points denial till it hurts, use the crystal of "beam me up Scotty" to dodge potential chargers/threats that they can't handle.
WE struggle this edition against us they struggle even harder, but they can still prove quite damaging, he has to use the previously mentioned Glade Riders to engage you from the front once Go Time and do his ram rest to get on your flanks with his combat heavy units. Since Steadfast is irrelevant for both armies he needs to cause casualties on a grand scale while mitigating any and all in return (hence the flanks). By using small units of Glade Riders to tackle the fronts he minimizes return CR to 5 from casualties and for the more important combats he could use the Treekin for his frontal combatants as they can dish out and receive punishment on a grand scale.
Tie up your Vamps unit with chaff, such as scouts, archer units and Glade Riders. Anything that won't let you get your points out of him really.

I think your freinds may have just picked frustrating armies to play. As for the Ogre Player suggest Scouting Stubborn man-eaters with a front rank of additional hand weapons and the rear rank of Great Weapons. This unit is the optimal build for ME's not the sniping wankers everyone seems so fond of IMO. One unit can prove devestating to a battle plan as they trapse about obliterating all they touch!
How do you deal with his Mournfangs?
Never Gut-Star as that was the only way for them to win last edition they have grown so much since then, I would even recommend him taking a Combat Lord say with the Sword of Bloodshed and Giant Breaker(?) to maximize damage output, let your Vamp get bogged in a challenge and obliterate the GG around him!
If he insists on a Slaughtermaster then fencers blades, glittering scales and challenge the Lord, their lore attribute means your bad ass vampire could be stuck only causing 2 regeneratable wounds per round while his Ogre's beat your unit to death.
Use Gut Magic as it has some really wonderful ways of mitigating incoming Damage with relatively low AS abound and his higher Strength and WS should do the rest...
04-20-2012 08:41 PM
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tinfish
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Post: #8
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

Ref or throw them a bone, let them use your army, you use theirs.

Explain to them exactly what to do during a turn, in other words, tell them how to beat you, give them some options, be honest too.

It is only a game, getting massacered is boring and off putting.
Taking 5 minutes to explain before they move that "killing this guy crumbles my army" or "kill this and we lose our regen" or "throw spells at Ethereals to remove them, you can kill the zombies with your chaff", helps them learn, helps them win and more importantly, helps them enjoy it.

Who wants to blow money and time on an army and get thrashed? Not me!
Keep winning due to knowing more about the game then them, you will find them unwilling to play.

Have a 2V1 last stand, give yourself a 500 point handicap too. It is fun and they can actually get some killing done.
04-21-2012 12:31 AM
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Bloodsworn
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Post: #9
RE: Advice on how to beat my army

My main army is wood elves, and ironically enough I play most my battles versus vampire counts. Can't speak for Tomb Kings or Ogre's though, as i'v neither faced them or played them.

When it comes to wood elves vs vampire counts, you really need to play on the two things vampire counts lack: Speed and shooting. Glade Guard are a must, and I never leave home without atleast 40 of them, divided into two units of 20, or a unit of 20 and two units of 10. The largest unit should allways have banner of eternal flame, which is brilliant for killing varghulfs, crypt horrors, mortis engines and the like.

Dryads should be kept in 2-3 units of 8 each. They lack ranks in any case, so keeping them small and maunverable is key. Try at all costs to angle it so that the enemy has to confront them in a wood. VC core is so bad (except ghouls) that i'v had 8 dryads keep blocks of 30 skeletons tied up all game doing this.

A level 4 is a must, and preferably with life and the wand of wytch elm (reroll all failed dispell attempts). Great Eagles are popular for redirecting and being a general pain in the ass. They are dirt cheap as well, and having two of them is pretty much what all wood elf generals have.

Treekin and treemen are great versus VC, so long as no terrorgheists or hexwraiths are present, as Treekin can go toe to toe against anything the vampire counts can throw out and win, with perhaps a little magical backup.

I would never expect a tree army to win versus a propper vampire counts army, since they just don't have the ranks nor the magic needed to break the undead propperly. Elves are a must, since otherwise you´re stuck with a level 1 (level 2 in Drychas case, but in this case she's worse than a treeman anchient), using a very bad lore indeed.
04-21-2012 11:50 PM
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