Post: #1

Based on the input in the thread below, I have decided to attempt a list (not finished as such, more of a brainstorm) based around the Coven Throne.

http://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Alas...ven-Throne

CHARACTER MODELS


THE GENERAL: Is not on the coven throne, but most likely in a unit of Grave Guard.
Vampire Lord, Lvl 1, Lore of the Vampires. Heavy armour & Shield.
I've got two possible item set ups
#1 Nightshround, Sword of Might or Sword of Strife, Talisman of Endurance.
#2 Ogre Blade, Talisman of Preservation, Other Trickerster's shard.

I've got four power set ups I'm considering:
#1 Quick Blood, Aura of Dark Majesty, Beguile.
#2 Quick Blood, Curse of the Revenant.
#3 Quick Blood, Red Fury
#4 Quick Blood +extra magic level.


MASTER NECROMANCER. Lvl 4 with the Cursed Book. Lore of the Vampires


COVEN THRONE VAMPIRE: Vampire lvl 2 (Lore of Shadows). Heavy Armour, Charmed Shield, Onyx Amulet, Dispel Scroll, Aura of Dark Majesty, Beguile, Dread knight, and of course the Coven Throne.


Point cost: If the Vampire Lord takes the most expensive options I come to 1114 points.


CORE:
2 X 5 Direwolves. (to serve as redirectors or hunt war machines)
60 Zombies. Musician, Banner. (Tarpit)
24 Crypt Ghouls. (Should be able to hold their own)
24 Skeletons, Musician, Champ. (A bunker for the Master Necromancer)

Notes: Assuming I don't buy anymore models, I have a ton more skeletons (around 70 total I think) and 5 more Dire Wolves, which I could exchange for other core.

SPECIAL:
29 Grave Guard, Full command, Banner of the Barrows, Great Weapons.
(NOTE: THIS IS WHAT I HAVE MODEL WISE)


REMAINING POINTS: That leaves me with 277-302 points depending on my Lord set up. What I have (Assuming I don't buy anything else) available is:
10 Black Knights
1 Black Coach
6 Wraiths +1 Banshee (7 models total)
1 Varghulf
3 Bat Swarms
6 Giant Bats.


STRATEGY: What I have so far are 3 fighting units to make up my the center of my army, namely the Grave Guard, Ghouls, and the Coven Throne itself. The Coven Throne makes sure to stay close to the General's unit to profit from his leadership. The Zombies will support them as a Tarpit, and the Direwolves will try to ensure favourable matchups with their units. The Skeletons will probably hold back unless it is safe(or at least safer) for the Master Necromancer to roam about on his own.

So my questions are:
WHICH LORD SETUP IS BEST?
HOW SHOULD I USE MY REMAINING POINTS?
ARE THERE ANY OTHER CHANGES YOU WOULD MAKE?

Post: #2

Hmm no replies so far. Does that mean my list looks good so far, or does it mean that noone is interested in a list with the Throne in it?

Post: #3

I might add The Other Tricksters Shard on the vamp riding the Throne; any and all attacks from it will have to re-roll successful ward saves!

Post: #4

(02-02-2012 06:09 PM)arbogast Wrote:  I might add The Other Tricksters Shard on the vamp riding the Throne; any and all attacks from it will have to re-roll successful ward saves!

Do you think that would be better on the Throne than the Vampire Lord?

Post: #5

I think your first load out on your Lord is over by 5 points. You could take the Sword of Striking instead. I wouldn't call hitting on 2+ a bad thing. But getting past the issue of character armour would then be an issue you could take the biting blade. If your lord takes some of those options though the Master Necro isn't going to be able to take the Cursed Book. I'm not 100% convinced of the book's usefulness though so maybe I'd drop it to let your vampire hog some more points. The Coven Throne is a bit of a difficult thing to justify in a list but your setup could work. I would consider both making him the BSB and giving him a lance. Also giving him Lore of Shadow to take advantage of Miasma could synergize well with your setup. Otherwise the rest of your list is good. I'd say maybe take a unit of Vargheists to fill up the points if you're willing to by the models. They hit pretty hard. The rest of your army seems good. I am with others who think minimum 30 Ghouls is required but that is something you can play around with.

Post: #6

(02-02-2012 11:41 PM)chris_havoc Wrote:  I think your first load out on your Lord is over by 5 points. You could take the Sword of Striking instead. I wouldn't call hitting on 2+ a bad thing. But getting past the issue of character armour would then be an issue you could take the biting blade. If your lord takes some of those options though the Master Necro isn't going to be able to take the Cursed Book. I'm not 100% convinced of the book's usefulness though so maybe I'd drop it to let your vampire hog some more points. The Coven Throne is a bit of a difficult thing to justify in a list but your setup could work. I would consider both making him the BSB and giving him a lance. Also giving him Lore of Shadow to take advantage of Miasma could synergize well with your setup. Otherwise the rest of your list is good. I'd say maybe take a unit of Vargheists to fill up the points if you're willing to by the models. They hit pretty hard. The rest of your army seems good. I am with others who think minimum 30 Ghouls is required but that is something you can play around with.

First thanks for the reply. I hadn't thought about the lance and that is a great tip, and in you've given me in general lots of comments to consider. In the first load, I gave the Lord only a 5+ ward, so I do think the point ratio is correct. To be honest I'm not sure about the Cursed Book either, but I wanted to try out one of our redone Arcane Items, and wanted to take a Dispel Scroll as well.

Post: #7

I also thought about putting a BSB on the Throne, but I was somehwat worried it might be too easy to lose her to a cannonball or nasty spell.

Post: #8

For a thronevamp I would always take fear incarnate and aura of dark majesty to get the most out of the throne, and combo it with a unit using the screaming banner.

Also, lore of shadows is an unreliable lore on level 2- if you roll steed of shadows then you already have 1 spell of questionable use, and Deaths Purple Sun does the same thing as pit of shades except it remains in play and only costs 1 more to cast. Okkams Mindrazor is useless on 90% of VC units due to their low ld and otherwise crappy statlines, and shadows lore attribute can't really be used with the coven throne.
A level 2 caster isn't going to be versatile, so it really needs to specialise- if you want to augment, use beasts or Vampires. If you want damage, use death or vampires.

Post: #9

(02-03-2012 03:21 PM)Sanai Wrote:  For a thronevamp I would always take fear incarnate and aura of dark majesty to get the most out of the throne, and combo it with a unit using the screaming banner.

Also, lore of shadows is an unreliable lore on level 2- if you roll steed of shadows then you already have 1 spell of questionable use, and Deaths Purple Sun does the same thing as pit of shades except it remains in play and only costs 1 more to cast. Okkams Mindrazor is useless on 90% of VC units due to their low ld and otherwise crappy statlines, and shadows lore attribute can't really be used with the coven throne.
A level 2 caster isn't going to be versatile, so it really needs to specialise- if you want to augment, use beasts or Vampires. If you want damage, use death or vampires.

Thanks for the reply. Also lots of good things to think about. The Screaming Banner and Fear Incarnate do look like a good combo for the Throne. That would mean either dumping the Barrows Banner on the Graveguard or dumping the Cursed Book and the Protective Gear on the Coven Throne Vampire, which is a difficult choice. Any tips?

While I like Miasma and the curses from Shadows, its true it might not be a good choice on the Lvl 2. I also think Death might be better on the Vampire Lord since with his leadership 10 he can use the default spell better. So the Coven Throne Vamp I'll give the Lore of Vampires to, and the Lord either Death or Shadows.

While Vargheists seem like a good suggestion, I'm now leaning towards a Varghulf and 2X3 Fellbats or 1X3 Fellsbats & 4-5 Wraiths to fill out the list.

Post: #10

Don't count steed of shadows out just yet. Imagine flying the throne behind enemy lines!!

Post: #11

The armies general must take the lore of vampires.

Post: #12

(02-04-2012 07:55 AM)Sanai Wrote:  The armies general must take the lore of vampires.

Yeah, that kills that idea. Still death maybe good with lvl 2. Doom & Darkness would be great in combination with the vampire gifts and coven throne ability. Even the terror causing spell might be useful against some armies.

Post: #13

What is the onyx amulet? Can't find it in the brb.

Post: #14

onyx amulet = opal amulet

& yes steed of shadows would be amazing to counter the thing's not so amazing movement... you could easily get it in cc on turn 2!
also does mindrazor take into account the general's inspiring presence? str10 units = win!!
For the Lord, i'd go option #2 for magic items & #3 for powers. (if you can also squeeze in beguile...)
for extra units i'd go the 10 black knights

Post: #15

Here is what I came up with. I actually think it might be fairly effective.

Lords
Vampire Lord
Level 1
Great Weapon
Talisman of Preservation
4+ ward save
Nightshroud
+1 armour save, ASL, lose str bonuses
Red Fury
+1 atk for each unsaved wound caused
Heavy Armour


Master Necromancer
Level 4
Dispel Scroll
Dispels 1 spell


Heroes
Vampire
Armour of Destiny
Heavy armour, 4+ ward save
Great weapon
Aura of Dark Majesty
-1 enemy ld within 6''
Coven Throne

Vampire
Barded Nightmare
Book of Arkhan
Danse Maccabre (Level 3)
Lance
Enchanted Shield
+2 armour save


Core
Zombies 20
Command

Ghouls 40
Ghast

Zombies 45
Command

Special
Corpse Cart 1
Lodestone

Black Knights 9
Command
Lances
Barding
Banner of Eternal Flame


Vargheists 4

Spirit Host 1

Spirit Host 1

Fell Bats 2

Post: #16

That list looks very, very solid to me.

A few things to consider:
-Red Fury on the mounted Vampire would turn the Black Knight unit into a proper hammer; right now it doesn't really pack enough punch to chew through enemy units on it's own. Also, Ironcurse Icon seems like a good buy for him, since your BK's will likely be a prime target for artillery.

-I think that GW on the Lord is a shame, since you don't get to strike before your opponent(s) (especially important in some challenges!) Maybe give him a 5+ ward, Sword of Might and a shield? 3+ AS is actually pretty decent in my experience, when you've got T5 and negate strength bonuses from weapons. Also, Other Trickster's Shard just always seems like a very good buy on a Red Fury Vampire Lord, especially for those pesky Dryads/Deamons that you're bound to face from time to time.

-You should probably get 1-2 magic weapons into the list, just in case you face ethereal-heavy VC

-A few more throw-away units could probably be nice; just a unit of wolves, or maybe 2 more bats will likely be great for out-deploying your opponent, doing stuff and chasing away fleeing units.

Post: #17

Those are some great suggestions, but if you look, I'm pretty tight on points as it is. Both lords and heroes are scaring the points limit. I would love to put a magic weapon on the lord, I'm a bit leery of losing him, but you may be right a 3+/5+ might work with night shroud. Not sure where I'm going to get the points for red fury on the mounted vamp. I think I am too close to the 625 cap. In order to fit in more flak units I would need to drop the corpse cart...which will be giving everyone ASF. The BK's are meant to monster hunt and get on the flanks quickly....hence the book. So yeah....if I had 500 more points I could flesh this list out nicely.

Post: #18

(03-02-2012 04:16 AM)Dragonhardt24 Wrote:  Those are some great suggestions, but if you look, I'm pretty tight on points as it is. Both lords and heroes are scaring the points limit. I would love to put a magic weapon on the lord, I'm a bit leery of losing him, but you may be right a 3+/5+ might work with night shroud. Not sure where I'm going to get the points for red fury on the mounted vamp. I think I am too close to the 625 cap. In order to fit in more flak units I would need to drop the corpse cart...which will be giving everyone ASF. The BK's are meant to monster hunt and get on the flanks quickly....hence the book. So yeah....if I had 500 more points I could flesh this list out nicely.

Mkay, so I brought out my big calculator in order to figure out a way to get my suggestions into the list. Here's what I came up with:

Vampire Lord:
-Remove GW and 4+ ward.
-Add shield, Sword of Might and 5+ ward.

Coven Vampire:
-Remove GW, Armour of Destiny.
-Add Shield, Heavy Armour, 4+ Ward (saves 1 point over Armour of Destiny)

Mounted Vampire:
-Add Red Fury

Units:
-Cut Black Knights to 8 models, cut big Zombie unit to 35 models.
-Add 5 Dire Wolves, add spear on Corpse Cart (since there's a point left over)

No idea if you feel this improves the list or not. I think that the Black Knights are now stronger at hunting monsters due to Red Fury on the Vampire, and I am not too worried about the Lord surviving with 3+/5++. He should be fine as long as you avoid getting him into combat with Dragons and the like.

Post: #19

If you want to go with Coven Throne I see the only viable option is to equip him with Talis of Pres. and Charmed Shield + GW and HA...
If you dont get first turn Charmed shield should be nice against cannons... and if you play against some1 not considering it should help aswell ofc (most ppl will just hit u with a unit of handgunners etc first instead and remove it)...

And still it's a squishy thing that probably wont be worth the huge investment (450 point or so?)...

I like the newest list alot more than the previous... but I'd still just go with the standard lord option methinks...
Dont really think Nightshroud is worth 40 points unless you're mounted for the extra save...

Post: #20

The nightshroud for 40 points is a steal. Gives enemies in base ASL, you get +1 sv AND they lose all str bonuses from weapons. That's out of control good for 40 points.

You might be right about the throne, but even if the vamp gets knocked off the top of it, it'll still function as intended. I was in a local scrub tourny playing my WoC and watched a lord on a coven throne not die the entire tourny (3 games). He faced an Empire player w/2 great cannons and an ogre player with 2 rhino cannons. He usually got to combat 2nd turn without a problem. It is a big points sink though for sure.