Post: #1

I just bought the coven/mortis kit. but can't decide wich one i'll make with it. Since i like the look of both models very much.

Any body has good reason why to make the throne or the engine?

Post: #2

(01-17-2012 12:34 PM)Griswald Wrote:  I just bought the coven/mortis kit. but can't decide wich one i'll make with it. Since i like the look of both models very much.

Any body has good reason why to make the throne or the engine?

Cannons will bop the chara riding the throne very quickly. Mortis engine I am finding is much better cos of the buffs it gives.

the look on peoples faces when you are at +6 to cast with a level 4 vampire lore caster. +7 if you give them the staff that adds bonuses aswell. Shocking!

Post: #3

I'd say the mortis engine. It CAN backfire on you, but the added regeneration bonus as well as the 2+ to cast vampire spells uppgrade makes it well worth it as a support unit. Also the coven throne somewhat restricts you´re ability to deck out your lords, since a fully geared up caster lord on a throne costs something north of 750 points, and if it's a close combat vampire you want, i'd say take a look at the zombie dragon.

Post: #4

I'd say it depends on the size of games you usually play. In 2000-2500pts. I would always take the Mortis Engine over the Throne. I'd Consider using the Coven Throne for games above 2500pts. though.

Tomorrow's my first game with the new book and also the first with 8th edition rules. I'm starting things small as me and my friend need to get accustomed with the 8th edition setting. (We're playing a few 1000pt. games first)

But just by reading the book and looking at the points I'd say that Mortis Engine might perform excellently in a 2000pt. game.

Post: #5

The Mortis Engine is just SO good at supporting your center/infantry that its kind of unfair to the Throne. With the Tome and Dark Acolyte you're getting an average of 4+level to cast invocations, which means a level two can get off the 12" version on two dice with some reliability. That's huge. A Level four is throwing it at +8, +9 if you want to be silly and add the Book of Ashur, which means to stop it the enemy is having to throw 3 more dice than you and that's HUGE. And don't forget the thing has a banshee scream!

I think Raizi has a great point though. In bigger games where you can already afford support for your core, a Throne could be amazing with a Lord on top to go marauding. Give him Aura of Dark Majesty, Lore of Death for Doom and Darkness, a Night Shroud, and maybe Beguile and let the fun begin!

Pyre

Post: #6

Hmm mortis engine for smaller games
I would consider using covern throne for a caster style vampire that was not your lord so the battle of wills adds a third level of protection against most stuff spells/warmachines etc. this would be for larger games since a covern throne + level 4 vampire is like 565 before magic items and vampiric powers

Post: #7

I have to concur and say the Engine. I don't think the Throne's that bad although you'll probably be sinking points into the Trickster's Helm and a Ward Save for the Vampire on top rather than killy killy death death stuff, but the Engine is just a big, murderous distraction, while the Engine adds a shooting attack, supports spellcasting and hands out buffs across the army. It's definitely the more synergistic of the two.

Post: #8

Thanks for the insight! i'm planning on making the engine. since i mostly play smaller games with my VC! and the 2+ to cast is wonderfull!

Post: #9

I played a game with the ME the other day. Went great. The mortis engine ward save help my army together and from turn 3 and forward its special attack really started hurting the enemy. But the miscast can really destroy you. I had two miscasts both on two dices. Luckily none of the bad ones were rolled.

I played OK. I was really nervous about him bringing the hellheart. (all enemy wizards within d6x5" makes a automatic miscast) This item could become very nasty very quickly...

To sum up. I really like the engine, but i dont know how much ill bring the upgrade. This makes everhthing a bit more random. Either you shine and enemies is blown away by your magic or you misscast and everything s steaply downhill.

Post: #10

I also bought the box last week, and I'm gonna start soon with building. I was really doubting aswell, but I'm going for the mortis engine. It looks evil as hell itself, it can perfectly perform in a 2000 pts army and gives nice buffs! Yes it can backfire, but I kinda like having a bit of risk around. Plus, you can heal it with our lore atribute.

Don't get me wrong, the Coven Throne is a beast, and can decimate horde-armies. But to start of I'm gonna make the ME. This is going to be a painters dream

Post: #11

(01-17-2012 04:20 PM)Pyre Wrote:  The Mortis Engine is just SO good at supporting your center/infantry that its kind of unfair to the Throne. With the Tome and Dark Acolyte you're getting an average of 4+level to cast invocations, which means a level two can get off the 12" version on two dice with some reliability.

Remember dark acolyte only applies if you meet the casting value already. It doesn't help you meet the minimum casting value, just makes it slightly tougher to dispel.

But yeah all aboard the mortis engine.

Post: #12

Got my Mortis Engine painted up yesterday- going to use it in my first game tomorrow

To me- the Tome's use is that it makes casting spells for vampires that DON'T max out on magic levels quite scary at throwing out spells...

the tome may well make miscasting more horrible- BUT- if miscasting is going to happen less often (due to me needing to throw less dice at spells) I see this as a fair trade off.

Also- remember it makes miscasting more horrid for out opponent's wizards within 12"...And the mortis IS a chariot...CHARGE!!!

Post: #13

The coven throne isn't all bad. You can put your hero lvl vampire on it in bigger games just to have some punch. It might attract missile fire, but then you can add other things like a crypt horror wall, vargheist warmachine hunters or the rare monsters/knights to give them a hard time choosing. I also find that using 2 units of 5 dire wolves puts a lot of pressure on their missile fire. You can place the wolves in between the unit they want to shoot, and then they grant hard cover to that unit. (doesn't work for cannons ofc)

And it's only 16 skellies to trade in for 10 wolves

Post: #14

Don't forget either that small vampires can take the coven throne too, so it isn't toooootally unusable! It might merit some attempts to use it with a small vampire on it! nevertheless I'll be building a mortis engine with mine, unless I can find a way to make it switchable.

Post: #15

Also, if you stick a hero vamp on the coven throne and keep it within 12" of your Vampire Lord general- 'Battle of wills' will be done on his/her Ld of 10 due to the inspiring presence rule

Post: #16

(01-21-2012 10:23 AM)Vengeance Crusader Wrote:  Got my Mortis Engine painted up yesterday- going to use it in my first game tomorrow

To me- the Tome's use is that it makes casting spells for vampires that DON'T max out on magic levels quite scary at throwing out spells...

the tome may well make miscasting more horrible- BUT- if miscasting is going to happen less often (due to me needing to throw less dice at spells) I see this as a fair trade off.

Also- remember it makes miscasting more horrid for out opponent's wizards within 12"...And the mortis IS a chariot...CHARGE!!!

OK- after playing a game with my Mortis Engine- I can now say that charging it headlong into a unit of Saurus warriors with spears was *probably* not a good idea... HOWEVER the resulting explosion obliterated his skinks that were harassing my flanks

p.s. Ghostly howl still sucks- just like it used to

Post: #17

The mortis engine certainly seems to be the easier choice to fit into a competitive army. The Throne is a great model but as with all mtultiwound character mounts the fact template weapons hit both rider and mount really hamstrings them. I can see sticking a cheap Vampire on there (and accepting that he'll die) might be an option but that's a big cost.

The Engine buffs your army, can become a wrecking machine from T3 onwards and doesn't require a character. One option for a Throne might be as part of a monster mash style list:
> Lord on Zombie Dragon (scream sword)
> Vampire Hero on Coven Throne
> Terrorgheist
> Mortis Engine
> Some fast specials
> Min-core: Some block units to break steadfast and maybe some dogs to keep up

Post: #18

I'm surprised at how many people are proponents of the Mortis Engine's optional upgrade.

Sure, it's a great effect, but the potential downside is so enormous I find myself shying way from it. I mean, you can literally one-shot your own general (he miscasts and then one of the miscasts results is the "remove from play" penalty).

Post: #19

I'm more interested in the Coven currently. Maybe it's my enjoyment of the Ulrika Novels making me love Lahmians, but I like that the Throne's abilities aren't as random as the Engine and that it doesn't blow up. It also has one of the best saves a mount can get in the game.

Post: #20

(01-24-2012 05:08 AM)Shadowfax Wrote:  I'm surprised at how many people are proponents of the Mortis Engine's optional upgrade.

Sure, it's a great effect, but the potential downside is so enormous I find myself shying way from it. I mean, you can literally one-shot your own general (he miscasts and then one of the miscasts results is the "remove from play" penalty).

It's amazing how powerful +2 to cast can be. It puts the dispelling opponent at a severe disadvantage... especially if you have a level 4. That'll draw another dispel die every time, or force your opponent to more fully commit instead of going after multiple dispels. Ogres have a similar item (grut's sickle) and I can't tell you how many times it's caused me severe problems trying to dispel... and they only get it for one caster!

It also makes me look at my dice total completely differently when planning what to cast. We can more reliably cast our spells and throw fewer dice at them. That'll let ya squeeze out another spell in the magic phase, or heck, if you have multiple casters spam 1 or 2 die IoN/VDM.

It does have potential for drawbacks, but it's an auto-take for me.

- aki