Post: #1

Hi Peeps. Had first game with new book this afternoon. Got one or two conclusions.

I think Lord and Hero options will cause a dilema or 2 when compiling lists. I really struggled with allocating my hero points and being happy with the balance. I took Krell but, to be completely honest, I was disappointed with the result. He only has 3 attacks. The do do D3 wounds but how often are you facing multiple wound creatures?. I think a normal Wight King is cheaper and can be made more effective.

Neheking is much more effective, especially with 'bubble', Dark acolyte power, Mortis engine and Unholy Lodestone. Being able to roll 1 dice and get a result of 15 is simply mind boggling! Then having that 1 dice roll add a potential 16 zombies multiplied by the number of units in range is simply incredible.

I have 158 zombies and used my extra 120 ghouls as zombies. I RAN OUT! I did not have enough models to represent zombies. Mantic, prepare to sell me 10 boxes worth!

Our troops are not as survivable as they were. it is way easier to bolster the numbers back up but without the Helm our troops drop like flies. 40 skeletons + Krell v 10 Cold one knights = Krell left on 2 wounds. I personally will be forgetting skeletons and ghouls. Romero be praised, I predict that zombies are the future.

I didn't take a big block of Grave Guard and regretted it, imensly. Great Weapon GG's are still number one. Being able to bring back 10 per Nehek means they will get into combat. I lost 20 skeletons but still had 20 to fight back. I did 0 damage with them. 20 Great Weapon GGs would have done damage, a lot of damage.

The Mortis Engine is a lot of fun but don't charge it in. The enemy gets too much combat res from our rank and file. Although I will note it was very entertaining when it's explosion covered a 30" zone of death on the board!!!

Hexwraiths. FANTASTIC. I took a unit of 9 and scared the crap out of my opponent. I predict everyone will have atleast 1, if not 2 units of 5 of these. Harpies = Dead. Hydra = 4 wounds. They kept over twice their points running around in circles to avoid them. Very satisfying.

Fellbats - made a mistake in writing the list. Only a level 4 can raise 2.5 bats per nehek. Put the power on 2 level 1 vamps. Still, getting 1 Nehek off did give me an extra bat per casting. 2 soon became 4. I can see a couple of turns worth of casting then releasing 6 bats off to cause trouble, might be fun.

In 7th edition I believe VC was all abotu receiving the charge then replenishing our troops to grind the opponent down. 8th used to be about getting the charge in and destroying the opponent with Great Weapons and sneaky Staff of Damnation attacks. I think it may have swung back with this new book. Not rushing in. Raising zombies to rediculous proportions and tar-pitting your enemies best troops. then the specialist troops, Cairn Wraiths, Hexwraiths etc do the real damage to the rest of the enemy.

My opponent was using DE and will have his sleep disturbed by thoughts of grasping hands and the soft moans of 200+ zombies!!! I'm off to write a list ready for a game tomorrow. Now do I bother with MotBA again?

Post: #2

Sounds great.
Suprised by Krell but I would expect him to be a big player in SoM or if you field krell along side him.
I expected nothing less from the hex wraiths though.

So we were right in our predictions, even with the skeleton warriors being cheaper they are still not worth their salt in battle?

Would like to see some crypt horror/ varghiest action though.

Let us know how you get on tomorrow.

Post: #3

My reactions:

1) Happy to see that Zombies are no longer a *word I can't say without giving myself an official warning* unit.

2) Upset because due to 8th I no longer have any of my *previous word + "ing" and in capital letters* zombies. Time to get painting...

Post: #4

Cheers for the feedback. I think personally it sounds quite good. If VC had remained the same as before there would be nothing interesting or new to do, but it sounds like we need to rethink.

Its also great to see that Invocation works well, and whilst we cannot raise loads of our good troops, we can keep loads of our core coming back which is how it should be.

Post: #5

Hmm I seem to have moved to the U S of A!

Yup, skellibones, for me at least, are still "looks good, plays sh*t". Maybe with the screaming banner, the vampiric power that reduces leadership by 1 combined with the vampiric power that forces rerolls to fear tests, maybe they might be ok. But I think they will require a great deal of magical baby-sitting to make them slightly above average. In fairness i think they would do reasonably well against standard rank and file but against anything decent they will struggle. Admitidly they did get charged by a very, very tough unit (cold one knights with bonus attack) but I still had 20 attacks left... If only they'd been armed with killing blow great weapons!

As to Krell, I reckon he's beautiiful looking but a little lack-lustre. Will be trying a couple more things tomorrow. I think my biggest struggle will be selecting lord/hero options.

Post: #6

Wouldnt Krell be great at challenges?

Post: #7

(01-13-2012 08:54 PM)Munkey Wrote:  Yup, skellibones, for me at least, are still "looks good, plays sh*t". Maybe with the screaming banner, the vampiric power that reduces leadership by 1 combined with the vampiric power that forces rerolls to fear tests, maybe they might be ok. But I think they will require a great deal of magical baby-sitting to make them slightly above average. In fairness i think they would do reasonably well against standard rank and file but against anything decent they will struggle. Admitidly they did get charged by a very, very tough unit (cold one knights with bonus attack)

This!
You couldn't have expected them to fare good against cold one knights or any elite unit for that matter. It's not what they are meant to do and to use them in such a way is poor tactics.

Anyway, was nice to hear what you had to say regarding the new book. Sounds like I will enjoy playing even more then before. Can't wait to field hordes of skeletons and zombies again =)

Post: #8

Well I had my first game against DE this morning and I was taken off on turn 6 except my general (lvl 4 necromancer) and 2 units of bat swarms.

I'm finding the temptation of selling 120 ghouls and buying 120 skeletons very hard to resist right now, but the combat potential is so much higher with the ghouls so i'm sticking with them for the time being. the points increase of the ghouls is disappointing to a certain degree, but i suppose they had their time in 8th where they were the powerhouse core choice that they were.

i do have to say, i'm loving the vargheists. wow, they ran through 5 harpies, then 10 crossbows, before threatening the general on mount before being redirecting into the cauldron that happened to be there downfall, but they scared my opponent into moving how he didn't want to, which gave me a massive advantage for turn 2/3 charges.

i think the one of the hidden gems of this book might be bat swarms. utterly pointless imo in the last book, now one of the best diversion units in the game. hover gives them a 10" movement every time, they get 5 wounds and best of all the unit in base contact has ASL which means they should win the battle of the chaff, plus, stick them in the side of the unit that is in base contact with your GW GG unit and you strike at the same time meaning you should get a full hordes worth of attacks before you get hit back.

i yet have to try out the 2 new chariots, the coven throne may never see the light of since it so many points that really does need a vampire lord sat on top for the LD value. the mortis engine does appear to have potential, especially when coupled with the crypt horrors and ghouls. i'll have a play with them over the next few weeks i'm sure.

has anyone tried any of the new magic items from the book? i took the rod of flaming death and never had the chance to use it since i had it on a death wizard who had better things to spend power dice on.

overall, i'm liking the new book, it has added a much needed diversity to the army that has led to my army coming out of it's case that it has been sat in for the last 3-4 months and i am really looking forward to building up an army starting from scratch again.

Post: #9

To the Op You didnt say weather you won or lost (or I missed it completly) What DE units caused the most problems and do you think you can beat them?

also the bit with the 10 coldone knights and krells unit did the combat res wipe out all of the skellies and just left krell with 2 wounds?

Post: #10

I think that when playing against heavy shooting + magic shooting/offensive magic armies, your thoughts might change. Plague claw catapult/warplightning cannon/doom rocket and plague/dreaded thirteen spells from skaven. Large amounts of magic shooting from dwarves is the bane of ethereal units and not being able to march unless 12" from general is a damper on hexwraiths. The list goes on I hope, but those two are the armies I play against most often, so maybe I am just being over sensative to that sort of weakness in an army. You can't simply take all of that damage and not move up. You are bound to roll low on the winds of magic.

Post: #11

My first game was against WoC and I won. It was really nice to have zombies that actually work. My skelies did their job great to but my GG with WK BSB did awesome and throw in the coven throne, well, wow. The hexwraiths are worth every point too. Fanatics for our VC and controllable. Vargheists are the bomb also.

Post: #12

You mentioned rolling one dice alot was that a reference or something you actually did? cause this edition you have 1/3 chance of auto failing the spell on one dice and thats really put me off of one dice casting. This and if you do fail you cant cast with that caster anymore.

Post: #13

(01-18-2012 06:36 AM)Wolfrahm Wrote:  Vargheists are the bomb also.

Aren't they very hard to control though with frenzy and all... seems to me they could be easily baited.

Post: #14

(01-18-2012 02:34 AM)drmooreflava Wrote:  I think that when playing against heavy shooting + magic shooting/offensive magic armies, your thoughts might change. Plague claw catapult/warplightning cannon/doom rocket and plague/dreaded thirteen spells from skaven. Large amounts of magic shooting from dwarves is the bane of ethereal units and not being able to march unless 12" from general is a damper on hexwraiths. The list goes on I hope, but those two are the armies I play against most often, so maybe I am just being over sensative to that sort of weakness in an army. You can't simply take all of that damage and not move up. You are bound to roll low on the winds of magic.

I do agree. Dwarfs are a pretty hard nut to crack. Warmachines cause massive damage and are pretty easy to "castle up". Also, magic is hard to get through due to their ability to dispel so well.

Quote:Aren't they very hard to control though with frenzy and all... seems to me they could be easily baited.

Fly backwards?

Post: #15

Quote:

Quote:Aren't they very hard to control though with frenzy and all... seems to me they could be easily baited.

Fly backwards?

Nah that is abusing the rules imo.

Post: #16

Had my fist match two days ago, 1000pts against HE.

I went with:
Vampire hero on Hellsteed with the Rod of Flaming Death, lvl 1
a Necromancer, lvl 1 (the General)
30x Zombies
15x Ghouls
3x Spirit Hosts
5x Black Knights
10x Dire Wolves
1x Varghulf

Opponent had:
39x Sea Guard
2x Bolt Thrower
1x Lvl 2 mage with the Ring of Fury
6x Shadow Warriors

---

The game went horribly wrong, from the beginning. My opponent stayed on the opposite corner while his Shadow Warriors were located in a wood and prevented me from marching. I also made some grave deployment errors and couldn't march with my Knights or Spirit Hosts after the 1st turn, they were on the left flank. My right flank was Dire Wolves and the Varghulf and they advanced towards the Bolt Throwers. Even with vanguard my 10 Wolves died on turn 1 without close combat.

Varghulf died on turn 2 without getting to CC. Next my Knights entered a wood to take cover. It turned out to be a Blood Forest. Opponent cast Banishment on them an *poof* off they went. The forest moved away though.

On turn 3 my flying vampiress caught a bolt too many and fell. She'd been flying around waving her rod, but I had to use all her power to cast invocations on my zombies and ghouls. The one time I was within range with the toy, the bound spell was dispelled with double 6's.

I connected with my troops on turn 4, I had 2 ghouls and 32 Zombies that hit the single mob of Sea Guard. They vanished after 2 rounds of combat, killing a single Sea Guard. We stopped playing at that, I had only 2 Spirit Hosts left, one with 1 wound remaining.

Overall I like the new rules, I just need to build bigger units now that generally the point costs have come down. Sea Guard are amazing in 8th edition. My opponent launched 25 arrows a turn, 6 poisoned arrows from the woods, 2 volleys from bolt throwers and had the Lore of Light with Banishment and the Ring of Fury.

I took a serious beating, managed to kill only a single model. Two of his Shadow Warriors died in the Poisoned Woods they were hiding in, so eventually the terraing proved to be more effective than my list.

We will be playing a rematch with the same lists next week. Let's see if I can come up with a different outcome then.

Post: #17

(01-20-2012 07:53 PM)Zhatan Wrote:  

Quote:

Quote:Aren't they very hard to control though with frenzy and all... seems to me they could be easily baited.

Fly backwards?

Nah that is abusing the rules imo.

Why is that? I think is a perfectly valid tactic .

@Raizi: too bad about the game. Also, your vamp would have been the general since he has a higher Ld than the necro (unless a master necro).