Post: #1

Okay I don't expect anyone to read all of this or even reply but I just feel like venting and maybe somebody here can get a good laugh out of it.

As you guys know I'm Jewish(shock, horror!) but I never really did anything with it until a year or so back when I re-returned to the religion after finding out about my family roots. I'm not a convert but a returnee and I can honestly say I finally find myself at home somewhere which is a rarity these days isn't it?

Anyway, I kept it a secret for some time and only came out of the synagogue's closet a few weeks back. And that's when the feces hit the fan.
I'm not stupid, I'm very aware of antisemitism I mean, my family decided it was best to hide their background for safety reasons which IMO is very sad actually, so it's got to be bad sometimes. BUT I never knew that people whom you expect to be more tolerant would be such brainless idiots!

I can take the hissing noises people make at me when I walk down the street with my kippah on. I don't care if they stare, point and laugh, hell I've been a hardcore Goth so I'm kind of used to being stared at.
What I can't take however is the stupidity from folks whom I've known for over ten years who suddenly don't want anything to do with me again. The people I've played RPG's and wargames with suddenly feel that I can no longer participate. I mean...what the hell?!

I talked to them about it and got a major headache. Was it because they were afraid I would talk them into converting or believing in God? No worries there we don't proselytize nor is conversion an easy process; you'll actually get turned down three time to see if you are really devoted. No it wasn't that. I believe in peace in Israel meaning for both Israelites and Palestinians so I don't see any political problem either.
So what is the actual problem? They couldn't really say other than that it was "weird".

Weird? We have two Christians in the group for goodness sake but a Jew is taking it too far? I just don't get it but the last two times I felt very unwelcome and they didn't even so much talk to me but use guttural noises.

Except for my return to religion and some very minor clothing changes I'm still the same. I still talk about the same stuff, have the same sense of humor and I don't expect anyone I know to change either.
I have other friends, real friends, who only noticed that I no longer eat cheeseburgers or pork but that's about it. I'd hate finding out that I would bother others with my beliefs.
My very best friend actually cracks some jokes that would have other Jews screaming mad in seconds but I know who it is saying those things and he gets it straight back We love watching South Park together and roll over the floor laughing when Cartman and Kyle start fighting.
So it's not like I'm easily offended and scream antisemitism whenever somebody looks funny but this situation with this gaming group was really starting to feel like antisemitism.

And now to the actual happening where I decided yes, this is antisemitism. These dear gaming-"friends" told me straight to my face yesterday that they just couldn't have a Jew in their gaming group. It took the fun out of gaming and I'd better get home before sundown to light my f*beep*ing candles.
I'm actually using far nicer wording here...oh and better grammar.

I just stood there for a long time looking them straight in the eyes, smiling like a retard thinking it was some sort of joke. Remember, these are guys I've known for over ten years and they never ever said anything antisemitic in any way. Oh yeah it sounded angry and hateful but eh you should hear the sarcasm that comes out of my mouth at times.
After a long silence and several angry looks of "why the hell aren't you leaving" my light bulb switched on that this was just plain nasty and not funny so I packed my stuff and walked off without saying anything.
I didn't feel that a confrontation would do me any good nor did I have the energy for it.

So I got home, welcomed in Shabbos and told myself it was their loss. Attended shul(synagogue)and felt like it was all over but today I started thinking and can't stop thinking.
I first started digging into my own behavior as maybe there was something I had done but I couldn't find anything. And here I am wasting a good Shabbos thinking about what the hell what wrong; where, when and why?

I know I shouldn't waste any time on it but it bothers me, really bothers me. It's not even so much that they were my best friends because they weren't (hah clearly not!) but it's just...argh!
I know it shouldn't bother me and I should just flip my finger and move on but I can't, not from people whom I've known for so long.
Am I being overly sensitive? Do I need a cookie? Comfort blanket and cry it out? Stop whining? Go back and do a Jewish drive by(drive near a person and pelt them with bacon)? Send a mohel(circumciser) over?

A small part of me is pissed but the biggest part is still standing there, smiling stupidly and going "huh?".

Post: #2

Wow, that's brutal!
It's easy for me to say "Screw them" because I'm not being affected; much harder for you to accept. This would be a nasty blow to anyone's psyche.
I hope you can find the strength to put this past you.
Your re-entrance into your heritage gives you a strong support system to deal with sh#t like this.
For completely selfish reasons, I hope you can find a group of people worth playing with.

Post: #3

Quote:Am I being overly sensitive? Do I need a cookie?

Everyone needs a cookie now and then.


But seriously, you did the right thing by leaving. Some people are simply sheep, and follow what the world preaches. Sadly, at this point in time with uber heightened religious tensions (Islamic Vs X, X Vs Jews, Christian Vs X) there's going to be flak for what you believe in. The bottom line is that they have a right to ask you to leave (If you're in the U.S it's for sure, not sure about other countries) even though by doing so they're being insulting and completely irrespective of you. They've known you for ten years, you've had good times, just...some people can't handle change. Especially change that brings obvious differences. People staring in the streets, and even the irrational paranoia of being 'Thrown In' with 'the Jews' still holds a bad taste in millions of mouths. Honestly, I think it's the Jewish perseverance. You guys have lasted through a Holocaust and a thousand years of persecution and are still a major world religion.

What did those guys last through? Wind of Undeath? Certainly no plague of Boils if ya know what I mean. (I had to, please don't be offended!) They're intimidated by the 'Mystique' of a religion that actually demands something of you, and intimidated by the unwarranted hatred against Semites in general.

First, I congratulate you for not doing what I would have done, and beat them senseless, so they can wake up with some sense. Second, I'm truly sorry for your loss. I can't say I know what it's like to have an entire group of people turn their back on you after so long a companionship, but I can only say one thing.

Well, actually, I can't say it here. DoN gets to whip me every time I curse.....

You don't need them. You've got us, for one, and if DoN ever gets the gaming system up and going I'll give you a Warhammer game. We're just a really extended group of friends, right?

Post: #4

Yeah, that's pretty crappy indeed!

I had a past issue with one gamer as well. He was unable to accept that I couldn't play every single weekly session (due to new relationship status)... my character was killed off. Funny thing is, he ended up getting into a relationship about a year later, and did the same thing to the rest of the gaming group... hypocrisy I say! Anyways, the rest of the guys I still talk to occasionally, I could call them up and arrange something on short notice... the other guy could it and for all I care!

Though, even if they grew up and were tolerant of other(s) religions(s).... would it even matter at this point? Probably not!

Quote:You don't need them. You've got us, for one, and if DoN ever gets the gaming system up and going I'll give you a Warhammer game. We're just a really extended group of friends, right?

I'll have you a game too... hey DoN... what's the deal?

Quote:Well, actually, I can't say it here. DoN gets to whip me every time I curse.....

That should be this emote Oni...

Post: #5

I'm really sorry to hear that Zephyr. It really disgusts me how intolerant some people are. I mean of all the things to push you out of the gaming group over. They need to bloody grow up.

With so-called friends like that who needs enemies........

@Oni / Bishop - it's been slightly delayed but is still in production.

Post: #6

A group of bigots like that were never your friends in the first place Zephyr. They were merely acquaintances who you are far better off being without. I mean, people like that, what of worth could they add to your life? Even in a trivial way, they have nothing to offer.

And no, you are not being overly sensitive, not at all. I think you showed an incredible amount of restraint. If it were me, I wouldn't have been able to have resisted from responding with 'wow.. I never knew that gaming geeks also moonlighted as Schutzstaffel members. Did you have to sit a test or were they able to pick you on sight as being a fucking bigot?'.

Life is too short to waste spending time with these people.

Post: #7

That horrifies and sickens me. I just can't fathom why people would be anti-Semitic. I mean, I get some people fear that which is different, but I don't see how someones religion is relevant to gaming with others. Hell, I know an evangelist who plays Khorne daemons, in the end we just want to roll dice, chat, and have fun.

I've only faced minor bigotry, because of my Catholic background. Maybe it's because of my Irish heritage that even my very conservative and older parents can't stand bigotry (especially religious) at all. They don't mind I'm dating a pagan even.

I probably would have reacted much like you, thinking it was some sort of really bad joke. Though if they're that terrible to you, especially to your face they're not fit to pour pee out of a boot with instructions written under the heel. Anger, pain, and confusion is the logical and normal response I'd say. They flat out were trying to hurt you with what they said.

I tried American Civil War re-enacting for a while (Union, 25th Wisconsin), but when I went to an event and actually spend time with those people outside of practicing marching and such... they were the most foul mouthed bigots I had ever met. Take all the bad stereotypes about rednecks and amplify it by 10. I got up and left, they disgusted me. Walking away from bigots is the right thing to do. Period.

It's not being sensitive. Being overly sensitive is not being able to take any joke. I can laugh at some jokes about Catholicism (again South Park is a good example of this), as I know the difference between goofing around and being a jerk. One of my friends constantly makes fun of me in the sense of... I was born Catholic, but I'm also bi... so he has plenty of opportunities to poke fun. I just shrug it off as I know, he'd stand up for me against anything that *was* bad.

Though I have to admit, as tempting as it is to confront them on it, etc... sometimes it is just better to walk away. Reacting and blowing up would have fed them, like the bullies they are. Your time was probably better spend as a result. It isn't worth the stress, time, and effort to confront them. Let the group suffer for its close mindedness. They're punishing themselves. Though I must admit the Jewish drive by or mohel visit is freaking hilarious...

I suspect you'll be feeling the "Huh" feeling for a while. I don't know I'd get my mind off it, especially since they're involved in a hobby you love. I hope they're not involved in other parts of the hobby/games. One of the ways I vent anger and pain is either working out or working on some major project (writing a program, writing a paper, painting an army... something time consuming). Avoid idle time, basically. As your mind will drift back to it.

If you were local, I'd offer to go to the pub with you and throw back a few to relax... or to throw down on the table and make our armies fight to the death... or a combination of the two.

Post: #8

Thanks for the replies folks, good to hear I'm not being overly sensitive about this and get a few good laughs about it as well.
Oh and trust me that somewhere deep inside I wanted to hit them but them versus only me and me being a cripple it wouldn't have ended well...although, I do have a steel cane No I admit it; I'm a wimp and a non-violent guy, not on the gaming board though but that's another story :P

It's good that I have loads of other friends who are cool about it so I can forget all about this but for now it's still kind of fresh you know? Another crappy thing is that I won't be able to avoid them as they're almost always at places where I go but at least I know they'll keep their mouths shut in public gaming stores. I've seen a guy get booted out of our local GW once for being racist so no worries there; it'll just be awkward stares.

And yeah you're right Onikaigo they do have a right to ask me to leave but funny enough they've set up a legal contract, this is an official group, in where the reasons for asking somebody to leave are clearly written down and nowhere does it say religion.
I could make a big legal fuss out of that but that would be such a Jew thing to do wouldn't it? *snorts*

And now...a bagel...erm I mean cookie!

Post: #9

When in that kind of situation, just ask yourself... What would Jesus Do?

hehe....


but seriously, if people make you uncomfortable like that, they arent worth gaming with. Is there another place you can game?

Post: #10

Quote:These dear gaming-"friends" told me straight to my face yesterday that they just couldn't have a Jew in their gaming group. It took the fun out of gaming and I'd better get home before sundown to light my f*beep*ing candles.

You've known them for over 10 years and they suddenly decide they can't associate with you over religion? Perhaps my atheist stance makes it seem less of a serious reason to me, but wtf. You seem to live in one scary place dude...

I have a Jewish friend who plays; as he's not allowed to roll dice at weekends, tournaments with him are an interesting experience

Quote:No I admit it; I'm a wimp and a non-violent guy

Being a pacifist doesn't make you a wimp.

Post: #11

Johnny B Wrote:I have a Jewish friend who plays; as he's not allowed to roll dice at weekends, tournaments with him are an interesting experience cheesygrin

Hehe. That's hilarious, I'd never thought of it that way.

Are you allowed to break Sabbath by rolling dice, Zephyr? OR is that taking the concept of not working a little far?

"Ten shots, roll to hit....C'mon Joe! Throw them bones!"

Post: #12

are you allowed to paint on weekends? If the people at the gaming club are setting up, are you allowed to help?

Post: #13

(04-18-2010 09:37 PM)Johnny B Wrote:  I have a Jewish friend who plays; as he's not allowed to roll dice at weekends, tournaments with him are an interesting experience

Yeah easy winning that way for you isn't it? But it's only from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday night. Sunday shouldn't be a problem unless you're Christian. And Friday during the day for Muslims I believe.

I usually do my gaming on Sundays, as I'm not allowed to go that far out of the area where I live unless I walk, but rolling dice isn't a problem. It really depends on the denomination and although mine is pretty strict my Rebbe sees no problem with playing games and he is the authority we listen to as he is a tzadik which means a righteous person and an example to all.
Gaming, taking a walk in the park, singing and dancing are even considered a great thing to do on a holy day oh and so is making love with your partner. Good excuse.

I don't think painting would be okay as it's a bit of a tie between a fun activity and work, I guess that's a no-no and setting up is just way out. Just imagine me standing there praying in a corner and leading out Shabbos and all of sudden I pop up "alright then!" when everybody is already dead tired and wants to go home.

Being observant can be funny at times. The most "embarrassing" moment I had so far was sleeping over and doing my morning routine, we Jews kind of look like space aliens during a morning prayer with the shawl, tefillin etc. My friend came in looked at me went "mmm...okay" and walked straight out again. He acted like he had caught me masturbating or something.

Quote:When in that kind of situation, just ask yourself... What would Jesus Do?

Ouch! Let's not even go there man.

But yeah I have another gaming group who doesn't care about my beliefs. It isn't an official group but I don't care. It's all about fun. We played some Dark Heresy yesterday at my home and it made me forget a bit about those bigots. I can just hear my parents going in mind "See?! Told you so! They hate us!", IMO that's taking it too far. It's good to be cautious and aware but it's not like there's a neo-nazi waiting in every dark corner to take you down.

Post: #14

Quote:it's not like there's a neo-nazi waiting in every dark corner to take you down.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Post: #15

Heh. I had to delete my post because...I'm a mod, and well, what I was going to say wasn't very Modlike

Glad to see you're getting over those guys in a hurry, Zephyr. I respect you on these forums, and would hate to haveta fly all the way over wherever you are to beat some bigots down.

Post: #16

(04-19-2010 09:57 AM)Sanai Wrote:  

Quote:it's not like there's a neo-nazi waiting in every dark corner to take you down.

I wouldn't be so sure.

No need to make things out any worse than they are

Good to hear you have another gaming group Zephyr.

Post: #17

Quote:Yeah easy winning that way for you isn't it?

He usually has to ask his opponent to roll his dice for him. Its cool because he can blame them if they fluff

Post: #18

Quote:My friend came in looked at me went "mmm...okay" and walked straight out again. He acted like he had caught me masturbating or something

I'd probably do the same thing. He probably just didn't know how to react to that situation.

Sanai, I'm trying to say this in the best way possible, but you might want to be a bit more careful about your comments. I know you mean well but some of them are...in bad taste.

Why would setting up be out of the question? I rather enjoy deployment...

Ps 27:5-6
For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock. And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

Ps 147:3
He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.

Ps 138:7-8
Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me. The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

Ps 140:12
I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and the right of the poor.

Post: #19

Erick, I did not mean any of them offensivly. The jesus one was a good natured joke, made only after he mentioned he did not mind them. The other stuff was literally me being curious about what counts as sabbath work to him. Also, if he is offended by them, he can tell me himself, its not really your place. Thank you for your concern.

Now, back on topic.
Zephyr, if I had been the one who had walked in on your praying, I would have asked if I could join you. While we may be of different faiths, we both pray to the same god, just in different ways.

Post: #20

I cannot exactly say I have ever been met with open hostility, but I am a Taoist, and as such when I get asked what I believe it often draws wierd looks.

Actually I have. Hard Core Catholics (Glasgow, a very dangerous place if you have no idea what you are doing) followed me for a good mile or so to the bus stop. They didn't say anything but they glared at me like...well, it wasn't very nice

Anyways, some people are just intolerant and are not worth it.

Oh, btw, sometimes the "unofficial" gaming groups are a lot better. More laid back IMO

Also, when DoN sets u[ his system, I too would be happy to give you (and anyone else here) a game.