Post: #1

Alright, since nobody seemed to be taking initiative over the specific bloodline brainstorming threads, here's mine. I like Necrarchs, thus, they come first.

Now, the general consensus is that we need to think of/alter/use some sort of Majorly Necrarch magical item, and then some purely Necrarch vampiric traits to be combined with the generic bloodline powers already in discussion/use. This thread is to help determine those.

I'd like to see a suggestion for items that you'd like to keep, as well as any new items that you'd like to see in a Necrarchs undead, spindly hands. Also, I'd like to hear what new, crafty powers we can think of. I'll give it a go first.


Items to keep:
Hand of Dust- Who but a Necrarch would tote this thing around?
Rod of Flaming Death- I see this as pure Necrarch. Last defense kinda thing.
Staff of Damnation- Makes minions better. I like it.
Skull Staff- Makes our Magic better. I like it.

Bring back the Familiar!

A new item, possibly,
Shrunken Head- One time use. At the beginning of Combat the Shrunken head may be declared in use. All attacks seeking to strike the bearer must randomize between the head and the bearer, a 5-6 being the vampire, 1-4 being the head. All hits on the head are discarded.


This item might just save the pretty fragile Necrarchs from a certain squishy death at the hand of some puny hero. Who just happens to be less puny in his arms than we are.
Points value...?

Vampiric powers:

The Arkayne describes us quite well. I like it all. Even the points values.

New powers:
Vast Study: 15 ish points. Necrarch knows two more spells of his/her/its chosen lore.

Zombie Affinity: 20 ish points. All zombies under your control gain +1 ini, and +1 toughness as they're bolstered by the Necrarchs dark energy.

I see Necrarchs as more horde based, and how to make them better? Make the horde better. Ever so slightly.


Alright, ideas. Comments. Criticism. Bring it on, this is supposed to be a thinking thread.

Post: #2

Zombie Affinity is OP for its cost. I would suggest either increasing the cost (a lot) or tweaking the significantly.

Vast study causes problems around points cost (I believe a spell familiar use to be 15 points?), so I would suggest up-ing the cost.

The shrunken head sounds like a good/practical magic item, but as far as Necrarch goes it just doesn't seem to have much of a connection with the bloodline itself, i.e. it doesn't scream Necrarch.

Post: #3

First of all I think we should see what if any powers we want to keep from the main VC book?

Personally I think all three Arcayne ones are fine:

Master of the Black Arts
Forbidden Lore
Dark Acolyte

They all fit perfectly with the Necrach's and I can't see anyone else fitting these. Additional ones:

Warrior Familiar - 30pts
This diminutive warrior darts around his master, stopping those who would dare hurt its creator
The Necrach does not class as being a character for issuing or accepting challenges. Any models wishing to allocate their attacks against the Necrach in CC must roll a 4+ on 1D6. If they fail the roll they may select another target as normal.

Experimentation - ??
The Necrach has experimented on his own troops, producing potent is sometimes unexpected results.
At the start of the battle pick one core unit and roll 1D6, then consult the following table. The results only affect troops, not any characters in the unit.

1 - The experiment has gone awry! The unit suffers from stupidity for the duration of the battle.
2/3 - The experiment has filled the creations with unexpected vigoour. The unit may march move as normal for the duration of the battle
4/5 - The experiment has filled the undead with detest for the living. The unit suffers from hatred for the duration of the battle
6 - The experiment went perfect, creating a unit of super soldiers - The has the effects of 2/3 & 4/5 and also suffers 1 less wound due to crumbling.

Post: #4

(03-28-2009 02:25 PM)Disciple of Nagash Wrote:  Experimentation - ??
The Necrach has experimented on his own troops, producing potent is sometimes unexpected results.
At the start of the battle pick one core unit and roll 1D6, then consult the following table. The results only affect troops, not any characters in the unit.

1 - The experiment has gone awry! The unit suffers from stupidity for the duration of the battle.
2/3 - The experiment has filled the creations with unexpected vigoour. The unit may march move as normal for the duration of the battle
4/5 - The experiment has filled the undead with detest for the living. The unit suffers from hatred for the duration of the battle
6 - The experiment went perfect, creating a unit of super soldiers - The has the effects of 2/3 & 4/5 and also suffers 1 less wound due to crumbling.

I think there should be a greater chance of getting a negative effect, or at least have a neutral one.

And there should be a power like the old forbidden lore that gives you +1 spell at 10(?)pts.

Post: #5

But then you have to ask, if it had more downsides who would bother taking it?

Post: #6

Since it is only one unit I think it looks good as it is. How much points though, that is the question. Perhaps 30? It's not bad but I dont really think its that great either in light of the rest of the powers.

Post: #7

I missed the part about only one core unit, but now I see that it's a great power.

Post: #8

Or, you could change it to be somewhat like the 40k Fabius Bile. You may upgrade any core unit at 2-3 pts/model and that unit gets those affects, as well as paying 20-30 points for the power.

And effects would be something such as

1: Experiment gone wrong! roll a D6 for each model in the unit at the beginning of the game, on a 5+ it is removed.
2-5: Perfect! The unit has hatred for the remainder of the battle.
6: Amazing Catastrophe! The unit Has hatred and Frenzy, but takes D3 wounds at the start of each friendly movement phase.


Also, I'd like something of this sort.

Complete Focus - 35 points
If the Vampire does not move and is not in combat, it may attempt to focus and retain or cast two remains in play spells that turn without canceling one.

Post: #9

Great ideas Trent. I would like to add "...in addition, if the vampire choose the Lore of the Vampires the vampire may cast any spell as long as he has power dice left.". Or maybe just type "...in addition, if the vampire choose the Lore of the Vampires the vampires the entire lore counts as being 'necromancy' spells".

Post: #10

About that focus power:
Would you be able to cast a remains in play spell and then keep on casting normal spells as well without cancelling it?

Post: #11

Yea, that was what I was trying to say. You can either have one and keep casting or have two going.

Post: #12

The arkayne powers are pretty good but maybe something like they have less WS but better casting values and stuff like in the old codex but something like:
Master of Sorcery 60
The Necrarch has the power to add one 'free' dice to his pull. (same as slann rule)

Spirit link 15
The Necrarch may link its soul to other vampires in the army, so that his dice are generated to the pool, but if a vampire who carries part of his soul is killed, he suffers a strength 5 hit with no armor save

Undead Construct 75 (probably overpowered)
Roll 4 dice and consult the chart below, effects are cumulative. (add the effects to whatever mount they are on.)
-1=The mount receives +1 attack
-2=The mount receives +1 Ws
-3=The mount receives +1 strength
-4=The mount receives +1 toughness(if monster) or +1 to riders save (if mount.)
-5=The mount receives your choice of above.
-6=The mount receives your choice and may roll another dice on this chart.

Post: #13

I really like the Construct idea for a mount, with that first statement that they'd be essentially weaker in CC this balances it out. Their mount can kinda do the fighting for em, an upgrade for Nightmare or Hellsteed, mayhap? Or just a replacement mount?

Spirit link brings up an interesting idea, that specific Vampire seems a little altruistic in my opinion. His dice are given to the pool, so any wizard may use them? It would be more in Fluff for the Necrarch to be in control, I think. Mayhap turning that ability around makes more sense to me, almost like some sort of Thrall control.

Spirit Link- Nominate one Vampire in your army to be the Spirit Link. That Vampire's power dice are added to the base power dice pool, in place of the wizards pool.

The wording may be off, but this is more fluffy in my opinion. The Necrarch creates one Vampire as a sort of Reservoir of power, tapping into him when needed.

Post: #14

I think your going in the right direction Oni, but I think more along the lines of.

Nominate one Vampire to be the Master and one to be the Thrall. The Thrall's dice may be used by the master as if they were in the basic power pool. If either Vampire is dealt a wound, the other takes the same hit. (Ex. The Thrall takes a wound from a strength 5 hit, the Master then takes a strength 5 hit.) If the Thrall is killed, the vampire takes a wound without armour or regeneration saves allowed. If the Master dies, remove the thrall as a casualty.

Now, this is very underpowered unless Necrach Lords and Heroes start at level 3 and 2 respectively.

Post: #15

We need to be careful about creating rules which are too complicated. Remember these have to be used in the game.

For Focus I agree with Danceman:

Complete Focus - I would say 40pts
A vampire with this power treats all spells in the Lord of Vampire as if they were Necromancy spells, and as such may be recast. It also enables the vampire to cast a RiP spell and continue casting without negating the RiP spell. The vampire may cast an additional RiP and run both together, however they may not cast any more spells until one of the RiP spells is stopped. This ability only works if the vampire is not in combat and has not moved in his previous movement phase.

For Spirit Link - I would say make it a cheap power at 20pts
A vampire with this power may use PD from any friendly vampire on the board. However for every PD used from another vampire, the "donor" vampire takes a S2 hit, no armour save.

I would say with Experimentation, to keep it the same, but I do like the idea about custom building an Abyssal Terror.

Post: #16

The simplified rules for the Necrarchs Spirit Link from DoNald seem good to me. It's more of a parasitic, Give-me-what-you-have feel that Necrarchs scream out. And besides, stealing a little bit of your Thralls soul in the form of strength two hits seems very Master/Slave.

Now, would complete Focus also work on non Vampiric Lores? I can see some pretty bad combination's with this one. And, for the price we're talking, possibly two Necrarch Masters, with Thralls, could take this. Could you imagine four RIP spells? Ouchies. Of course, they'd be stationary, and completely vulnerable at that point in time....but still.

Post: #17

I'd say Vampires and maybe death only. There's only one Vampire RiP spell so one more lore would be adequate.

Post: #18

Then again how many lores are there that have more than one RiP spell, not many.

Post: #19

Very true. So lore of vampires only then.

Also, just thought of a great idea for spirit link. On the dice that were from other casters instead of a str for every dice, how about if you roll a one with those you take a str 4 or 5 hit. It makes it somewhat like the Greenskin's magic mushrooms.

Post: #20

So you'd only take damage/hit on the roll of a one when you use those dice? I can see that. I like the Str 2 hit better, personally.