Post: #1

This thread is for voting on the Necrarch Bloodline Powers

Please note: This is not to vote whether they fit in with the theme etc. That is what the discussion in the threads is for.

It is to check and ensure we have created fair rules that are not unbalancing, or there is not something grossly wrong that has been over looked.

This Poll will close on 25/06/09


Spirit Link - 20pts
Jealously do the Necrach's horde their power, even from those of their own line.
A vampire with this power may use PD from any friendly vampire on the board. However for every PD used from another vampire, the "donor" vampire takes a S2 hit, no armour save of any kind allowed.

Warrior Familiar - 30pts
This diminutive warrior darts around his master, stopping those who would dare hurt its creator
The Necrarch does not class as being a character for issuing or accepting challenges. Any models wishing to allocate their attacks against the Necrarch in CC must roll a 4+ on 1D6. If they fail the roll they may select another target as normal.

Experimentation - 30pts
The Necrarch has experimented on his own troops, producing potent is sometimes unexpected results.
At the start of the battle pick one core unit and roll 1D6, then consult the following table. The results only affect troops, not any characters in the unit.

1 - Failure! - The experiment has gone wrong. The unit suffers from stupidity for the duration of the battle.
2/3 - Vigour - The unit does not need a vampire within 6" to march for the duration of the battle.
4/5 - Disdain - The unit gains the hatred rule for the duration of the battle.
6 - Amazing Success! - The unit becomes subject to Frenzy which is can never lose,hatred for the duration of the battle, and may march move as per the BRB. The experiment is a little too perfect and the unit cannot capture table quarters as it will disintegrate as soon as the battle is over.

Dark Acolyte - 30pts
As per the VC AB

Forbidden Lore - 35pts
As per the VC AB

Complete Focus - 40pts
Ignoring those around him, the vampire opens his mind to the winds of Shyish, controlling them with unparalleled skill
A vampire with this power treats all spells in the Lore of Vampire as if they were Necromancy spells, and as such may be recast.
It also enables the vampire to cast a RiP spell and continue casting without negating the RiP spell. The vampire may cast an additional RiP and run both together, however they may not cast any more spells until one of the RiP spells is stopped. This ability only works if the vampire is not in combat and has not moved in his previous movement phase.

Master of the Black Arts - 50pts
As per the VC AB

Bloodline of W'soran - 100pts
So ancient is the vampire its teacher might have been the dread lord W'soran himself. Manipulating the flow of magic comes as naturally to the vampire as breathing does to a living human.
Whilst the vampire is still in play all enemy wizards suffer a -1 modifier to casting spells, this can be combined with other negative modifiers such as Balefire. The vampire also ignores miscasts and does not have to roll on the miscast table - however the spell still fails as normal. In addition the vampire adds 6" to all his spells when checking if in range.

Post: #2

I am liking the bloodline powers as a lot of them are very vivid visually. My only gripe is Expermentation. I believe that this should work in a manner similar to that of Fabius Bile in 40k OR Skavenbrew. It would look something like this for the table:

An undead unit designated by the Necrach has undergone 'Experimentation'. At the beginning of the battle it rolls on the following table;

1 - Failure! - The experiment has gone wrong. The unit suffers from stupidity for the duration of the battle.
2/3 - Vigour - The unit does not need a vampire within 6" to march for the duration of the battle.
4/5 - Disdain - The unit gains the hatred rule for the duration of the battle.
6 - Amazing Success! - The unit becomes subject to Frenzy which is can never lose and hatred for the duration of the battle. The experiment is a little too perfect and the unit cannot capture table quarters as it will disintegrate as soon as the battle is over.

Don't know how that sounds but makes the cost of 25 points a much more round figure.

How does that sound?

Post: #3

The only one im not sure of is complete focus, the ability to have saveral RiP spells on the table at once, or one RiP and then lots of other, seems a bit much for 40pts. However I think the real Op factor is treating ALL spells as Necromancy spells. It's a scary idea. I would say either remove that particular rule, or up it to say 50pts.

Post: #4

I agree with both the previous posters.

Experimentation - as Voltaire outlined (similar to Fabius Bile) looks good to me (at 25-30 points).

Complete Focus - treating all as Necromancy seems OTT, to me. As does allowing two RiP spells.

Maybe tone it down point-wise... and allow the casting of Necromancy spells even if a RiP spell exists [which would basically be: can cast Necromancy spells while maintaining Curse of Years], and make Summon Undead Horde count as Necromancy (Necarchs favour Zombies, iirc).

This avoids having double Curse of Years and spamming Vanhels, and all the other really bad things that the initial suggestion could bring.

Post: #5

There may be unlimited spells but there is a limit to your Power Dice. Kitting out a full army yo use complete focus is not possible by any stretch of the imagination. 2 RiP spells seems excessive but the worst that can happen in theory is 2 Curse of Years up at once from a Lord level vampire. Everyone else is going to be focused on repairing and moving the army too much to do anything and each progressive cast of something risky like Wind of Undeath also creates an equal and probably greater chance of there being a miscast.

Post: #6

I think Bloodline should give all Necromancy spells as well. Otherwise it reads fine.

Post: #7

(06-11-2009 10:02 PM)Voltaire Wrote:  1 - Failure! - The experiment has gone wrong. The unit suffers from stupidity for the duration of the battle.
2/3 - Vigour - The unit does not need a vampire within 6" to march for the duration of the battle.
4/5 - Disdain - The unit gains the hatred rule for the duration of the battle.
6 - Amazing Success! - The unit becomes subject to Frenzy which is can never lose and hatred for the duration of the battle. The experiment is a little too perfect and the unit cannot capture table quarters as it will disintegrate as soon as the battle is over.

Looks ok. I would be willing to go with the except I think for 6 the unit should still be able to march move. Coupled with not being able to capture table quarters 25ps should be fine

(06-11-2009 10:47 PM)Marcus Von Drac Wrote:  The only one im not sure of is complete focus, the ability to have saveral RiP spells on the table at once, or one RiP and then lots of other, seems a bit much for 40pts. However I think the real Op factor is treating ALL spells as Necromancy spells. It's a scary idea. I would say either remove that particular rule, or up it to say 50pts.

(06-12-2009 12:13 AM)Bishop Wrote:  I agree with both the previous posters.

Experimentation - as Voltaire outlined (similar to Fabius Bile) looks good to me (at 25-30 points).

Complete Focus - treating all as Necromancy seems OTT, to me. As does allowing two RiP spells.

Maybe tone it down point-wise... and allow the casting of Necromancy spells even if a RiP spell exists [which would basically be: can cast Necromancy spells while maintaining Curse of Years], and make Summon Undead Horde count as Necromancy (Necarchs favour Zombies, iirc).

This avoids having double Curse of Years and spamming Vanhels, and all the other really bad things that the initial suggestion could bring.

I will echo Voltaires post. For a start a vampire only has limited amount of PD, so there is only a limited about the caster can do. This power is not really going to work well on Hero levels, mainly it will be used for Lord levels.

Secondly perhaps the wording is unclear. You could have 2 RiP spells going (Lore of Vampires only has one anyway), however you could not cast anything else. It is either keep one RiP spell going and still cast, or hold 2 RiP.

Whilst it sounds really powerful, when put into context it is not. The most use for this will be mainly casting Curse of Years and then still casting other spells.

Post: #8

I echo DoNs views. Yes from me.

Post: #9

I still stand by treating some spells as Necromancy as a very bad idea.

Vampire Lord could have:
- lvl 3, MotBA, Comp Focus for 5 power dice
- lvl 3, DA (4), Spirit Link, Comp Focus for 4 power dice (plus dice sharing)

As well as, two Power Pool Dice. And then add on magic items (Black Periphat, Power Stones, etc).

ex: Making a Gaze of Nagash a Necromancy spell means that you should be able to easily cast it 3 (or 4 or more) times just from THIS Vampire (nevermind other casters).

There was CLEAR intent when certain spells were specified as being Necromancy spells. IMO, only Raise Dead should be upgraded to Necromancy... it fits very well within the confines of the Necrach fluff.

I see the concern being that making Summon Undead Horde a Necromancy spell, and allowing the caster to maintain Curse of Years while still casting other spells as simply not being worth 40 points (since it's possible that you may not even have Curse of Years). Perhaps add in something like "May substitute any non-necromancy spell rolled for a necromancy spell"

Suggestion Wrote:Necromantic Scholar - 40pts

When generating spells, a vampire with this power may also substitute any non-necromancy spell rolled for any other necromancy spell of their choosing
A vampire with this power treats Summon Undead Horde as a Necromancy spell, and as such it may be recast.
It also enables the vampire to cast Necromancy spells while maintaining a RiP spell. This ability only works if the vampire is not in combat and has not moved in his previous movement phase.

Post: #10

I still stand by my view. If enough people vote to change it then of course it will be.

Post: #11

The 2 main reasons I was concernd were:
1) Multiple Gaze of Nagash - could shred an entire unit
2) Have Curse of years going, and still be able to raise units or propell them across the battlefield.
I like the idea, but 40pts for what was previously an ability held only by Teclis seems quite cheep.

Post: #12

Bloodline of W'soran needs to either cost less or become better

Post: #13

In regards to Complete Focus, it looks like we are going to have to disagree, and let the vote decide.

Undead Vegetables - in what way do you think it is underpowered, and what would you suggest as an improvement.

Post: #14

Well, unfortunately I have had to vote maybe. As for Bloodline of W'soran I think its fine.

Post: #15

Well 6 yes to 4 maybe. Could still go through at this rate.......*fingers crossed*

Post: #16

Haha, a little nervous are we DoN.
Seriously though, if it did go through I wouldnt have a problem, as I would almost certainly use complete focus because its an awesome power.

Post: #17

I'll throw my vote in for Yes. I think that both the Focus and Bloodline look alright, though the image of one with W'soran's bloodline being restricted to a magic lvl of 3 and no MotBA is a bit strange. It should however be kept that way for game balance.

Post: #18

Just joined after lurking for sometime. Finally joined in order to take part in this project.

I think every Bloodline Power is fine except maybe Complete Focus for various reasons. I would actually like to see Bishop's suggestion take it's place as I feel this would work well and offers a good amount of power for its points cost without being OP.

Post: #19

Well even with all the controversial discussion the powers still got voted through be a healthy amount.

Thread Locked