Post: #1

This thread is to discuss and create an optional army list tailored to Necromancers. Players should be able to use this or the main army list with the Necromancer stat / bloodline changes if they wish, so it needs to be balanced.

Ideally we don't want to create too many new units, just change or limit choices.

There hasn't been any discussion for the Necromancer army list yet, so feel free to start.............

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Characters

Master Necromancer
~see stat changes for options and standard mounts
~May choose the Master's Corpse Cart as a mount choice - see below for details

Necromancer
~see stat changes for options and mounts

Wight King - 67pts
~BSB option for 20pts
~Limit of 1 per 1000pts


Core
Zombies - 3pts per model
Skeletons - 7pts per model
Crypt Ghoul - 7pts per model

Corpse Cart - 67pts
~Upgrades - 20pts each


Special
Grave Guard - 10pts per model
~0-1 per Wight King

Spirit Hosts - 55pts per base

Dire Wolves - 7pts per model

Rare

Black Knights - 21pts per model

Cairn Wraiths - 45pts per model

0-1 Zombie Giant - ???pts
~See below for details

New Unit

Master's Corpse Cart - 175pts

M 4 / WS 3 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 5 / W 3 / I 1 / A 2D6+2 / Ld 7

Equipment
Grasping Hands

Armour Save
4+

Special Rules
Undead
Regeneration
Miasma of Deathly Vigour

The Power of the Master
The most powerful of Necromancers can create contraptions of immense power that eclipse those of their brethren. Fuelled with the power of the dead, it invigorates those nearby whilst providing more than ample protection to its owner.
The Master's Corpse Cart automatically comes with both the Balefire and Unholy Lodestone upgrades. In addition it confers its Regeneration special rule on its rider.


Zombie Giant

M 6 / WS 2 / BS 0 / S 5 / T 5 / W 6 / I 1 / A 5 / Ld 2

Equipment
Hands and Feet

Special Rules
Undead
Terror
Large Target
Move (as per normal Giant rules)
Fall Over (as per normal Giant rules, with the exception that that the Zombie Giant falls over on a roll of 1-2)

Zombie Giant Special Attacks

A Zombie Giant may choose to forgo it's normal attacks in any combat phase and instead choose one of the following attacks:

Vomit - One Use Per Game
The ZG vomits a disgusting combination of long rotten flesh, stagnant bile and other unwholesome products on its foe. The ZG nor its foe may attack for that turn unless they have already done so. The ZG gains +3CR for this turn when working out combat results. In addition, for the remainder of the combat all enemy units hit by this attack suffer a -1 to hit and wound as they slip and struggle in the mess.

Braaaiiinnnnssss.......
Can only be used against Ogre sized creatures or larger. The ZG grasps hold of his opponents head, trying to eat the grey goodness inside. Your opponent must take an Initiative test on 1D6, a 6 is always a failure. If failed the model suffers D6 S5 hits. Any wounds inflicted heal an equal amount of number on the ZG, but they cannot take him over his original number of wounds.

Splat!
Can only be used against models smaller than Ogre sized. The Zombie Giant picks out one juicy morsel and attempts to turn him to mush with his fist. Pick one model in BtB contact. The Zombie Giant may make one attack, rolling to hit using his normal weapon. If successful the model suffers an automatic wound. If a 5+ is rolled to hit, the blow counts as having the KB special rule.

Post: #2

Well, the Special and Core units are fine as they are methinks, except maybe put a restriction on the Bat Swarm and Fell Bat units? They are rather focused on Vampires after all...

For Lords, obviously bring back the Master Necromancer! As Heroes, we only have the Necro and Wight King, maybe add another choice? One idea is to use the current (weakened) Necromancer as something of an apprentice, and put a somewhat more powerful form of Necromancer in there as well as a third Hero choice.

In the Rare section, I suposse you can keep the Varghulf's rules, just change the name and fluff (Necromantic Construct thing). Also, but that might be a bit too many extra rules, bring in the Zombie Giant! The latter might also give folks an extra motivation for playing this list (I know it would motivate me), and all those people who already converted up a Zombie Giant could actually use it properly

Just some thoughts

Greetz

Post: #3

Well I agree with everything Evil Clown has said there, especially the zombie giant . To be honest the army list doesnt need much altering. The only real suggestion I would make would be to remove the Blood Knights. They just would not suit the fluff at all.

Post: #4

1 - No Vampire heroes and no Blood Knights means that only Coaches and Varghulfs will allow a march move. I think this would be crippling, as you'd need to spam Danse successfully in order to get anywhere - it would take 6 turns to get to the front of the opponent's deployment zone. Serious consideration has to be paid to the movement issue, because there will be little pressure for the opponent to charge in, instead outmanouvering (even dwarves can march 6) and sniping until the end game.

1b - 'Strength of Will' - At the beginning of each turn, each Necromancer makes an Ld test to see if they can goad the units on. Pass allows units within 6" to march as per the Vampire rule.

Post: #5

Actually Fodderboy I was thinking of something almost exactly the same as that rule myself. Perhaps keep the 'Strength of Will' rule, and have the Master necromancer pass it automatically. And still, no vamp characters or Blood Knights - none!!

Post: #6

I'd also say to get rid of the more Martial units, such as Black Knights. I see Necromancers more along the lines as Fodder Cannons. They summon more and more unkempt, ragged bodies to get in the way and win through attrition. GG swinging great weapons and/or Black/Blood knights just don't ring me as Necromantic. Especially blood Knights.

Drop Blood Knights, Black Knights, and make GG a 0-1 choice.

I second the Master Necromancer, definitely.

Post: #7

If you want the Master Necro - look over at the necro stat thread and start making up his rules!

I second no vampires, but use the Strength of Will rule with Masters auto passing.

I think we should keep GG & BK. Remember Necros are skilled wizards, they are not going to ignore the more powerful undead servants. In the 6th edition they actually got to have more in the army as the whole army got a point reduction if it was themed round a necro.

I also really like the idea about creating proper rules for a zombie giant.

Post: #8

maybe do the thing in the old book where everything is 1-3 points cheaper, but have anything mounted count as a rare, and put in no vampires/bats. Also maybe you get a free wight king/you may buy a wight king instead of a unit champ for GG units. i think this would balance out the fact of the lack of movement. Also maybe have the necro lords have like a +2 to cast necromancy spells, know all the necromancy spells(but cant take the others), and have the Invocation have no minimum casting roll. This would make it a slow army thats easy to get around, but at the same time you could have a lot more guys if you had 2 point zombies 6 point skeletons 9 point GG ect.?

Post: #9

I'd suggest imposing a limit of sorts on GG and BK... I agree with absolutely no Vampire (characters) or KotBK.

The Necromancer Lord should have a rule that "counts as a Vampire for purposes of marching, crumbling, etc, etc"

Maybe let the Necro heros either have a shorter range tha also auto-passes... or a bigger range that they have to roll for.

Post: #10

Hmmm, no vamps or Blood Knights. Perhaps move Black Knights to rare, and make GG a 0-1 per Wight King option. that keeps it fluffy. For the 'Strength of Will' rule I think perhaps Necros have the 6" Ld test, and Masters can choose either a 6" auto pass, or a 12" Ld test roll. And yes DoN, im trying to come up with the Master Necros rules, give us all a chance.

Post: #11

(06-15-2009 08:18 PM)Marcus Von Drac Wrote:  Hmmm, no vamps or Blood Knights. Perhaps move Black Knights to rare, and make GG a 0-1 per Wight King option. that keeps it fluffy. For the 'Strength of Will' rule I think perhaps Necros have the 6" Ld test, and Masters can choose either a 6" auto pass, or a 12" Ld test roll. And yes DoN, im trying to come up with the Master Necros rules, give us all a chance.

You might want to note I made that post when no one was actually posting in the other Necro thread

Ok, based on what we have so far I will edit my original post........

EDIT: Ok have done so now.

Post: #12

Ok, so time to give this one a bump. So based on the discussion so far I would suggest the following

Characters

Master Necromancer
Necromancer
~should we provide any mundane equipment options?

Wight King - 67pts
~BSB option for 20pts


Core
Zombies - 3pts per model
Skeletons - 7pts per model
Crypt Ghoul - 7pts per model

Corpse Cart - 67pts
~Upgrades - 20pts each
~Should this fill a core slot?

Master's Corpse Cart
~See Below


Special
Grave Guard - 10pts per model
~0-1 per Wight King

Spirit Hosts - 55pts per base

Dire Wolves - 7pts per model

Rare

Black Knights - 21pts per model

Cairn Wraiths - 45pts per model


New Unit

Master's Corpse Cart (can only be taken by Master Necromancer)

As per CC except:

S - 3 / T - 5 / A - 2D6+2

Armour Save of 4+

Regeneration is conferred on Rider.
Comes with both Balefire & Unholy Lodestone as standard.


So what do we think?

Post: #13

I would say don't give the Necros any mundane weapon options.
And the corpse cart shouldnt take up Core slots,same as in VC.
So with that, yeah, there good.

Post: #14

Yeah, I agree on the no mudane equipment after giving it some thought.

Do we think we have enough options in the army list, it looks a little sparse?

Post: #15

What about a monster of sorts to replace the loss of the Varghulf?

A Manticore/Abyssal Terror type level monster.

Will the Necro characters have any mount options other then Carts?

Oh, and... Personally, I think that the Wight Lord should be 0-1... not that anyone playing a Necro list would want to... but a Master Necro and 3 Wight Lords seems out of character to me.

Post: #16

Hmm, I think that it should be a limit per points, like one per 1000pts or something similar.

How about a Zombie Giant for rare?

Post: #17

Zombie Giant... Zombie Dragon... something appropriate and monsterous

Post: #18

Well I would think that the Master Necromancer would be able to ride a Zombie Dragon. I like the idea of having a Zombie Giant though, with custom rules. Yay or Nay?

Post: #19

I think a Zombie Dragon would be pushing it a little. Maybe an Abyssal Horror...
Yes for Zombie Giants, I think, they should be a bit more like Bone Giants than actual Giants, though. It doesn't make sense for a monster totally controlled by the Necromancer to attack randomly.

Post: #20

So shall we say then Abyssal Terror - just as a mount or as a Rare Choice?

We could just say with the Zombie Giant that due to its large size, the necromancer can sometimes find it difficult to control or something. I am sure we can make up decent rules for it.