Post: #1

I've got the book here and have read the "Resurrecting Fallen Warriors" section on pg26. It implies that you can heal characters at the top of the section but then says this at the very end:

"Unless specifically stated otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost Wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts. If a character has joined a unit, only the unit will recover lost wounds."

Again, it implies that you can heal lone characters but explicitly states you cannot. The only exception I have found is the VC lore attribute says the casting wizard can heal a wound to himself.

So, is this right? Can anyone find anything to refute this?

"

Post: #2

I imagine what it means is that if that a spell can either target the unit, or the character that has joined it, not both at the same time. Of course, IoN itself doesnt target anything, it just heals everything in a radius.

Post: #3

According to the wording even a lone character cannot be healed by IoN. And their mount can never be healed by any means that I can find.

Post: #4

Agreed. The wording is clear: unless stated otherwise, spells and items can't heal characters. That's a bit of a bummer, although I suppose they did give us the ever so slight concession of the "Hunger" rule that all Vampires now have.

Post: #5

Everytime you successfully cast a Vamp Spell you can heal one wound within 12".

Post: #6

(01-14-2012 07:06 PM)Artiee Wrote:  Everytime you successfully cast a Vamp Spell you can heal one wound within 12".

Indeed, the Lore Attribute allows either the Wizard or another character within 12" to recover one lost wound every time they cast a VC spell.

Post: #7

Correction: when a spell from the lore of vampires is successfully cast the wizard (or another friendly model within 12") instantly recovers a single wound...


Model is not the same as character. The lore attribute does not specifically say it can heal characters, just the wizard casting the spell. Therefore I'd say that, taken as written, it cannot be used to heal other characters.

Also, looking at page 26 of our new army book again, it says if a character is in a unit the unit must be healed, not the character (last sentence of the box). Yet another thing stopping us healing our characters (unless we have them running around by themselves).

I imagine both of these are a matter of poor rules writing and I expect them to be cleared up in the first FAQ.

Post: #8

Isabella's Chalice looks pretty tasty if this remains as is...

Post: #9

I'd be surprised if we can heal our characters, by the way the rule is worded it is obvious that we cannot. Another thing that drives us into the direction of the combat vampire, who at least has a tiny shot of heal by Hunger (though I agree he's more likely to suffer damage). Plus, a kitted out caster vampire easily goes over 500 points.

I guess GW found it easier to balance VC by giving us characters that dies like everyone else, but instead we can negate crumbling.

Post: #10

(01-14-2012 07:39 PM)Dan_Lee Wrote:  Correction: when a spell from the lore of vampires is successfully cast the wizard (or another friendly model within 12") instantly recovers a single wound...


Model is not the same as character. The lore attribute does not specifically say it can heal characters, just the wizard casting the spell. Therefore I'd say that, taken as written, it cannot be used to heal other characters.

Also, looking at page 26 of our new army book again, it says if a character is in a unit the unit must be healed, not the character (last sentence of the box). Yet another thing stopping us healing our characters (unless we have them running around by themselves).

I imagine both of these are a matter of poor rules writing and I expect them to be cleared up in the first FAQ.

A character (if your character ) is a friendly model!

Important note, you wouldn't be able to raise a skeleton, as you can't target a dead model. This is clearly for targeting multi-wound models.

It seems that the lore attribute is there to heal characters/mutli wound models and then IoN is there for the units.

Post: #11

I was correcting the previous quote by Darvaleth which seemed to imply the wording of the ability specifically said "character."

I'm sure the intention is for it to heal characters and multi-wound models. I just don't think its worded well and needs FAQ-ing for clarity. The differing opinions already coming up in this thread is evidence of the rules/wordings ambiguity.

Post: #12

The way I read it is that Characters cannot be healed by magic or item except for Wizards who cast a spell (they can heal themselves ONLY ... not other characters in 12" because it doesn't specifically state so), the Hunger, Isabellas's cup, and maybe the potion of healing.

Am I missing something? People can talk about RAI but I noticed this often contradicts RAW and RAW is what tournament organizers go by (and whatever nerfs an army is often the option selected ... sad but true ... remember the old IoN arguments about engaged units :rolleyes.

Post: #13

I fail to see why it can't? A character = a model.

New Vamp Lore attribute = Lifeblood (same wording, pg 496 BRB)
IoN wording is about = to Regrowth wording....

(I'm guessing, no new book yet)

Post: #14

It implies to me that if the Character is by Himself he can be healed, But if he is in a Unit he cant. And then to Quote Darvaleth "Indeed, the Lore Attribute allows either the Wizard or another character within 12" to recover one lost wound every time they cast a VC spell" That is how a Charecter in a Unit would regain a lost wound.

Post: #15

It seems GW took the TK road with VC characters but gave them a chance to repair themselves if they themselves cast spells or kill things in combat which I think balances the matter, since killing a combat Lord supported with L4 Necro would be really really hard if every successfuly spell within 12" would heal a wound on him.

Post: #16

I don't see anything about it not being able to heal Characters...

There is no reference to Resurrecting Fallen Warriors like Invocation of Nehek; it only states that 'the Wizard (or another friendly model within 12") instantly recovers a single Wound lost earlier in the battle'.

The way I'm seeing it, Invocation cannot heal characters, but The Curse of Undeath can (as well as any other multi-Wound models).

Post: #17

What the Resurrecting Fallen Warriors is getting at is that if the character has joined a unit then only that unit can heal. If a character is on his/her own then IoN can heal them. The last line of the box "If a character has joined a unit, only the unit will recover lost wounds."

A character on it's own is considered a unit so IoN could heal them in that instance. This is reinforced by the second sentence in the same box "If the target consists of a single model, such as a lone character or corpse cart, then it can never exceed it's starting wound value."

So healing spells just won't heal characters that have joined units as the magic is affecting the unit not the character.

At least that is how I read it

Post: #18

(01-15-2012 01:16 AM)Zombieboy Wrote:  A character on it's own is considered a unit so IoN could heal them in that instance. This is reinforced by the second sentence in the same box "If the target consists of a single model, such as a lone character or corpse cart, then it can never exceed it's starting wound value."

The rules specifically state that characters and their mounts cannot be healed unless stated otherwise. I don't see azny wording in IoN that says characters can be healed with the spell. Targetted ... yes, ... healed ... no. And the lore attribute says "Model" which could encompass a whole range of things but it doesn't specifically state "character model" so a character cannot be healed with the lore attribute unless it is the casting wizard himself.

We have the stated rules and then we have what people hope the rules says ... but don't. I know which I'm going to follow.

Post: #19

You are taking one sentence out of context. Why would a rule say "If a target consists of a lone model, such as a lone character, then it can never exceed its starting wounds value." That says in itself that a character can be healed, just not past it's starting value.

The sentence in question, which I admit is not worded the best is "Unless specifically state otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts." Which is immediately followed by "If a character has joined a unit, only the unit will recover lost wounds."

Why even put the following sentence in? Because it is clarifying the previous one.

IoN says that it targets all friendly units in range. A lone character is a unit. If a character is in a unit, then the unit, not the character is healed as stated (an referenced) in the Resurrecting Fallen Warriors.

Again all that said it seems pretty clear to me that lone characters could be healed but characters in units cannot. Others can decide to pick one sentence and run with it, refusing all other information but unless an FAQ says different that is how I am playing it. Not because that is how I WANT to play it but that is how it reads to me.

Others play as you wish!

Post: #20

The VC lore attribute can only heal multi wound things, it can never ever resurect new things. That's totaly different from the Tomb kings lore attribute.
And then the VC lore attribute does not have anything to do with "resurecting the fallen" since it NEVER EVER resurects anything, it CAN NOT!