Post: #1

Hi all,

Some of you might remember my "Ice Warriors" from an earlier thread. Well we're back and I'm working on sprucing them up for 8th, the list thus far:

LORDS - 385pts

Sorcerer Lord (Shadow) - Lvl.4, Spell Familiar, Charmed Shield, Sword of Strife, Talisman of Endurance, Potion of Foolhardiness, Stream of Corruption
De-buffs galore plus a competent combat character, 5 strength 4 attacks (plus one when charging and quaffing the potion) plus 2D6 strength 3 hits from the stream should make a dent in whatever he faces. Will bunker with the BSB in the defensive warrior block) Also tots a 3+ save, a 5+ ward and ignores the 1st hit on a 2+.

HEROES - 370pts

Exalted - BSB, Shield, Mark of Tzeentch, Book of Secrets (Shadow), Opal Amulet
Multi Purpose BSB, uses the shadow signature spell (with +1 from Tzeentch), has a 3+ save, a 3+ ward against the 1st wound suffered, and a 5+ ward (parry + MoT) in CC

Sorcerer (Fire) - Lvl.2, Infernal Puppet, Enchanted Shield
My support caster, mainly there for the Puppet and to throw Fireballs at regenerating targets, Flaming sword could be handy as well.

CORE - 971pts

22 x Chaos Warriors - shields, full command, Blasted Standard, Mark of Tzeentch.
Primary Anvil. tough, hard to shoot up, and decent damage output. The Sorcerer Lord and BSB bunker here and spread their bubbles to my 4 primary units.

21 x Chaos Warriors - Halberds, Standard, Musician, Banner of Rage, Mark of Tzeentch
A Tougher unit of Khorne warriors, I figure if the 6+ ward saves 1 guy its earned its points. Anything after that is just bonus! lol

5 x Warhounds
5 x Warhounds
5 x Warhounds
5 x Warhounds
Screens and redirectors to help me pick my targets

SPECIAL - 360pts

4 x Trolls
4 x Trolls
Experimental hammer units, will form up 2x2 on the warrior units flanksfor support charging. Lots of Strength 5 attacks, plus quite survivable with re-rolls for stupidity and within the generals LD8 bubble I'm hoping for food things!

RARE - 410pts

Hellcannon
Hellcannon
I was using and loving Hellcannons before they wer cool now with 8th I'm bringing them back for some more fun!

So, the armies compact but tough and hits like a freight train. Magic is primarily de-buffs and a few offensive moves to thin out hordes/ artillery, Hellcannon shots do more of the same and the rest of the army chews through whatevers thrown at it! Suprisingly 8th seems to boost people who like Infantry heavy lists such as myself, so I'm liking this so far... what are peoples thoughts?

Post: #2

A few potential changes to the list:


Adjusted the Sorcerer Lord to:

Lvl.4, Infernal Puppet, Charmed Shield, Shrieking Blade, Talisman of Preservation, Favour of the Gods, Stream of Corruption

This allows me to drop the Lvl.2, and trim the 21 warriors down to 18 in order to add a unit of 30 Marauders with Shield, Light Armour, Mark of Tzeentch, standard and musician.

Thoughts on the changes? Or on the list itself?

Post: #3

I'm back from on holiday, my first post this summer

I generally like the concept of the fluff from the old list which I commented on, shame to see you dropped the Nurgle theme (on the units anyway - I still don't like the magic!). On the other hand, Tzeentch is much more effective now, so no faults from a gaming perspective, atleast from an overall point of view.

However, a few nitpicks:

I don't like the idea of making a Wizard into a hybrid, at least in this type of army - theres nothing he can do which an exalted can't, and nowadays the Book is just extra miscasts, since first off, your other wizard can still cast while he has Remains in Plays up, and the FAQ means the book can't attempt to channel anyway. For this reason, I'd give your BSB an Axe of Khorne or Aethersword, and a shield, and Mark him Khorne - more survivable in a challenge and better defense for your Wizard.

Make a single unit of Trolls and rank them in 4x2 - more combat effective and harder to break down if they're on the receiving end of a counter charge.

Post: #4

Thanks for the reply!

Re. marks: I wanted to pick 1 mark and carry it throughout the army to represent "The Mark of The IceLord", so Tzeentch seemed the best generic choice. I see it as a strong wind, or an icy layer over the armour.

Had a game against a daemon list yesterday and had my butt handed to me by large Bloodletter blocks, so I've schemed up a tweaked list that I think will work a little better... after all, anything those pansy daemons can do, my warriors can do better!

LORDS - 380pts

Sorcerer Lord (Lore of Fire) - Lvl.4, Blood of Tzeentch, Armour of Destiny, Necrotic Phylacerty, Stream of Corruption
So, he's dropped most of his combat gear and his armour save has gone down a little, in exchange for being able to equip the Necrotic Phylacerty, making him immune to characteristic tests and the lore of Death, so much harder to snipe! Also, I think Blood of Tzeentch is going to be more useful then the puppet.

HEROES - 190pts

Exalted - BSB, Shield, Mark of Tzeentch, Book of Secrets, Dragonhelm, Ironcurse Icon
2+ save, 5+ ward in combat, gives his unit a 5+ ward against artillery, Book spell will probably be either fireball or the signature shadow spell so I can cast it on 1-2 dice with relative ease (essentially a lvl.2 mage between the book and Mark of Tzeentch)

CORE - 1103pts

29 x Chaos Warriors - Shields, full command, Mark of Tzeentch, Blasted Standard.

29 x Chaos Warriors - Halberds, full command, Mark of Tzeentch, Banner of Rage.
My main battleline, will adjust frontage based on what I'm facing, but weight of quality attacks backed up by decent saves and a high Initiative should ensure they make a dent!

SPECIAL - 360pts

4 x Trolls
4 x Trolls
Despite facing down 2 units of Flamers, these guys were excellent, gave my opponent a few concerns when throwing attacks at them just seemed to make them stronger!

RARE - 465pts

Hellcannon

Warshrine

Warshrine
The cannons were alright, but as my Lords switching to a more offensive magic setup, I thought some more supportive units might be in order.

Any thoughts/ suggestions on the new list?

Post: #5

That's a really... scary list D:

Nothing worse than lookin gup and your WoC opponent and seeing him grinning as he plants thosenasty units down on the table.

I would say the list overall is good, but there is no expendability. things happen in Warhammer to make you lose units, a stray ridiculous charge etc, but all of your units are essential to your battleplan. Yes you got munched by the bloodletters, but I don't think increasing the size of the blocks to near enough 30 each is the answer. I would say more maneuvaribility is needed to help flank those units when they charge.

The Warshrines instead of the hellcannon are a good choice, but are two necessary? Maybe consider losing one of them, a rank from each of your beastly units and having some skirmishers or something.

You could have Icicles of Tzeentch(Flamers) to give your army a cool unit for your theme

Post: #6

Well, unfortunately Flamers are Daemons and not WoC, Xaret.

I do agree some expendability would be useful though, drafting the 5x Warhound units back in would be a good idea, replace the second Warshrine.

I think Heavens would be a better approach than Fire for the Wizard, fire still has a Strength issue and there are two 100% wasted spells in fire for a WoC army too - the Flaming Sword and the Cloak. You're good enough in combat as is, and Chain Lightning and Comet both provide better damage dealing spells than anything in Fire.

As for the Warriors, I also think that padding them out with more warriors won't help you against massed units of Bloodletters and the like - break down the halberd unit into two smaller ones with Mark of Khorne instead of the Banner, it'll help with your centralisation issue, and unless your ranking up in more than 10, you don't gain any offensive bonuses from having a big unit - Frenzied Halberdiers aren't designed to survive or take charges whether theyre 15 or 150 strong, leave the attrition to your Shielded unit.

Post: #7

Thanks for the input guys!

Took a slightly adjusted list to a game last night against Dark Elves (re-added the 2nd hell cannon in place of the shrines, added a couple more warriors and re-shuffled the character setups) heres a quick breakdown of the units performance:

Sorcerer Lord (Lore of Heavens) - Lvl.4, Blood of Tzeentch, Armour of Destiny, Necrotic Phylacerty, Stream of Corruption
The biggest thing this guy did was blanket most of my army with Harmonic Convergence, a lot of my rolling was very sub-average so this helped bucketloads (though I think maybe 1/4 of re-rolled dice came back up as 1's! lol) Comet came down twice, 1st time fragged a Bolt thrower crew, some spearmen and some corsairs and a crossbowman, 2nd time killed 2 spearmen and 5 chaos Warriors (damn over-eager nutters! lol)

Exalted - BSB, AHW, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon
Realised I had 2 arcane items so dropped the Book for more protection. He killed a BSB, 2 unit champs and a Hag in challenges and I forgot to roll EotG for the characters wooops!

30 x Chaos Warriors - Shields, full command, Mark of Tzeentch, Blasted Standard.
Thease guys copped Pit of Shades 3 times, ended up soaking up a lot of firepower and then turning to clear my left flank of a small corsair unit and some crossbowelves, ended with about 8 guys plus the Sorcerer Lord left.

31 x Chaos Warriors - Halberds, full command, Mark of Tzeentch, Banner of Rage.
These guys tore the elf combat line apart, they deployed in horde and took a fair bit of shooting before making it into combat with a Corsair horde with the ASF banner on a BSB and the Frenzy banner. I caused 26 kills and broke the remainder, running them down and stopping in front of the spear elves. They slaughtered them the next turn and re-formed to charge into and wipe out a crossbow unit on the last turn. had a little under 20 by the end but sooooo many decent strength attacks is just brutal!

SPECIAL - 360pts

4 x Trolls
4 x Trolls
1st unit was obliterated by a Hydra (damn flaming strength 5 breath weapon!) the other delayed the right flank for the whole game.

Hellcannon
Hellcannon
they knocked a few holes in the dark elf horde units, early on, and one held up the rampaging hydra in combat for the whole game, finally succumbing on my opponents turn 6.

So all-in-all not a bad outing, that horde unit of Halberd waving nutters is excellent, not certain about 2 hordes but there was a bit of a target painted on the anvil block so the combat block could get where it wanted to be, and anything that can walk through 3 Pit of Shades and still come out combat ready has gotta be worth something! lol

GO-GO GADGET EDIT! - what do people think of dropping the Anvil block for 2 units of 40 Marauders with command, Light armour, Shields, MoT. I thought they could either gang up with heroes and Trolls to crack the enemy or the can at least hold long enough for the Frenzied Horde to break the flank and roll up the line...

Post: #8

To be honest, I don't know why you're surprised you can just wander over Pits of Shades :P You're WoC - I5 ftw!

All in all I think the last is the best list you posted so far , and I'd definitely avoid using Marauders as Anvils, but using an anvil is 100% necessary with your main fighting unit being a Frenzied one - stick with the Warriors.

Post: #9

(08-07-2010 04:40 PM)Humaneater Wrote:  To be honest, I don't know why you're surprised you can just wander over Pits of Shades :P You're WoC - I5 ftw!

lol he never used it on me whilst I was I5, he had 2 mages hight the shadow signature spell, I was I3 twice and 4 once! still wasn't nice to watch 16pt models take a template and here, "Initiative test or die...." and imagine my little warrioes yelling "AHHHH, THE WARDSAVE, IT DOES NOTHING!!!!"

Post: #10

I think you should switch your soccerer lord to either tzeench or shadow for your lists. You have seen the cool things shadow can do so why not use it?

Post: #11

Just a question - Isn't there a 4+ ward talisman your Sorc Lord could take thats cheaper than the AoD? Since his chaos armor is better than the AoD's 5+ armor.

Post: #12

Zanos, that would force him to remove the Phylactery from his Sorceror Lord. I vote for keeping the Armour of Destiny, as being immune to characteristic tests and the Lore of Death is really quite something these days.

I think the list will work out with either the second unit of Warriors or the two groups of Marauders in its place, really. I'm somewhat partial towards keeping your Warriors in there though - those models, damn!

Post: #13

Thanks again for all the replies! It really helps keep the gears turning!

@ Tobin - I love shadow magic, but I think that Warriors already have quite an advantage in stats, so Heavens re-rolling 1's when you need 3+ and 2+ fairly often is handy, as is the signature spell and even the comet and offensive spells are all flexible and useful...

@ Zanos, MS is absolutely right, I do it for the Phylacerty to keep him almost immune to sniping.

@MS I love the warrior models too, and they're the main reason I started the army, ranks of heavily armoured elite Infantry wading through the enemy!

With that in mind, I've tinkered with the list again, and gone for a little more of an MMU style (Multiple Medium Units) to spread the pain a little and to minimise the effects of one-hit-wonder spells like Pit Of Shades and the 13th spell. Please let me know what you think!

LORDS - 380pts
Jhared Sleet-Hart
Sorcerer Lord (Heavens) - Blood of Tzeentch, Armour of Destiny, Necrotic Phylacerty, Stream of Corruption.
Joins Warrior block 1. I think Heavens has great synergy with Warriors, its combination of anti-shooting, granting of re-rolls and damage spells seems to work in well with our quality troops. He has BoT instead of puppet because I believe its more useful in general, The 4+ ward armour downgrades his save a little, but allows me to have both a wardsave, and the Phylacerty to make him pretty immune to sniping, the Stream gives some much-needed combat punch to his anvil bodyguard unit and stacks with the Razor standard for a -2 to saves!

HEROES - 429pts

Dhaelik the Mournful
Exalted Hero - BSB, Shield, Mark of the Ice Lord (Tzeentch), Book of Secrets (Shadow), DragonHelm, Opal amulet
Joins Warrior block 2. My BSB. 5 strength 5 attacks (thanks to the Banner of Rage), 2+ save, 5+ ward in Combat and a 3+ ward against the 1st wound suffered, he'll shred anything short of a lord, and probably a fair few of them too! lol The book will give him the default shadow spell to cast at +2 (a lvl. 1 mage +Tzeentch) so he'll pot 1 dice at it a turn so he's got no chance of a miscast.

Vhord the Abominable
Exalted Hero - Mark of the Berserker (Khorne), Juggernaut, Halberd, Helm of Many Eyes, Blasphemous amulet
The "army champion." 5 strength 6 attacks that will more often than not strike first with re-rolls to hit, plus the jugger, plus every magic phase any enemy in B2B contact (generally around 4) take a T test or suffer a wound. Will babysit the unit of trolls furthest from the mainline to negate his helms negative effects and give him a bit of combat support.

CORE - 1144pts

Chosen of the Tundra
20x Warriors - Shields, Command, Mark of the IceLords(Tzeentch), Razor standard.
Warrior Block 1. Guards the Sorcerer Lord and holds the left flank. Will probably deploy 7x3 and reform to maximise attacks as needed.

Hunters of the Frozen Steppes
20x Warriors - Halberds, command, Mark of the IceLords(Tzeentch), Banner of Rage.
Warrior Block 2. Guards my BSB and holds the centre of the line. Will also probably deploy 7x3 and adapt to theenmies frontage. These guys are all about weight of Strength 5 attacks!

Berserkers of the Jagged Peaks
18x Warriors - Halberds, Musician, Mark of the Berserker(Khorne)
My "hammer" unit, will normally deploy 6x3 and roll up the left flank, then reform and work its way along the line.

SPECIAL - 360pts

Snow Beasts
4x Trolls
4x Trolls
Support units for the Mainline, hoping the tag-team of the tough warrior blocks and the regenerating trolls, plus the 3 characters will give some ral punch all the way along the battleline.

RARE - ***pts

Frost Daemon
Hellcannon
Holds my somewhat "refused" Right flank and lobs shots in to thin down enemy steadfast blocks that may bog down the assault..

So thoughts? I mainly wanted to spread the threat around and make my 2nd troll block a bit more killy. I had to drop the 2nd Cannon but my "Super-Troll" conversion for it will probably look better as a centrepiece to the army rather than having 2, plus there was slight grumbles from my gaming group when I mentioned 2, so hopefully they'll learn to fear the wall-of-steel that is a pure warriors (and co.) army!

Will Plog this once I start getting the models with re-posts of storyline/ etc. But I'm just working on my sort of "to buy" list atm, so any input into the list would be great!

Post: #14

Just a note on the Pit of Shades and the I modifier - characteristic tests are taken on unmodified stats last I checked, so for the purposes of Pit, you're I5 anyway.

As for the list - first off the Wizard Lord. I'd completely disagree with Blood of tzeentch being less useful in general than the puppet - quite the opposite actually. You're quite unlikely to roll low on low cast spells, and if you miss a high cast then one re-roll won't always cut it anymore - puppet, on the other hand is great for dropping enemies into the 2-4 section of the miscast table, and pushing yourself out of it, into the more favourable 7.

Secondly, warrior block 2 - if you want them to act as a hammer unit then swap MoT and the banner for MoK, and even them out a bit smaller, perhaps 18 (6x3) like your other hammer. If you want them as an anvil - MoT and Blasted Standard, with more models in them if possible. Currently they just seem to be an all-comers unit which isn't doing anything your other two aren't, which isn't 100% necessary, and you can get some expendability for the points you save, like wolves or marauders.

Once more, I love the concept of the fluff!

Post: #15

(08-11-2010 11:19 AM)Dreadgrass Wrote:  HEROES - 429pts

Dhaelik the Mournful
Exalted Hero - BSB, Shield, Mark of the Ice Lord (Tzeentch), Book of Secrets (Shadow), DragonHelm, Opal amulet

Can a BSB use a shield? Just a question, other than that your list look pretty darn solid.