Post: #1

With the Terrorgheist released a few months ago, and a new army book in the pipeline, things are actually getting better for VC. Finally.

But looking back on the Terrorgheist, how good is it? And it seems to have usurped the place of the only VC monster before: the beloved Varghulf. So now we have the choice, which should we go for?

Varghulf

Good points: Well, to start with it has a pretty decent profile, with 5 strength 5 attacks with hatred. Moreover, it has a very good movement value:8, and it's a vampire so it can march (as well as the units around it, so you can one helluva good flanking force) so it's pretty speedy. It's pretty durable, with T5, 4 wounds and regenerate is enough to keep it going for a LONG time. Oh, and it's a monster so it gets Thunderstomp.

Bad points: In combat, it's just so damned SLOW. Unlike most vampires, it's got a pitiful Iniative of 2, so average footsloggers strike before it, so large, ranked up units should be avoided. It does have a poor leadership, but this only causes problems when it gets targeted by leadership-based spells. Other than that, there aren't any more problems, but it lacks the jazzy special rules every monster has these days, and so it really only has its' (admittedly badass) profile.

Terrorgheist

Good points:Unlike the Varghulf, the terrorgheist has plenty of fancy special rules, such as the amazing death shriek, and some more which you can buy for hardly anything, and they're very good to be honest. Of course it's a monster as well, and has all the advantages that has in combat. It's fairly durable, with 6 wounds and T6. But it's only got a 6+ regeneration save(are GW actually mocking us?!), so it's not as durable as a varghulf really. It's more mobile than the vargulf though, as it can Fly.

Bad points: First of all, it's profile is really mediocre. Not rubbish, just mediocre, so it lacks the hitting power of the Varghulf. And for that mediocrity, it's 50 pts more expensive. These two points, when put together, are very big disadvantages. It's also not a vampire, so when the general dies, it only has its' leadership of 4 to save it. Great.

In my opinion, the Varghulf wins, as even though the terrorgheist has its' death shriek which can easily inflict 4+ wounds per shriek, it only has a range of 8, and the varghulf is just so good in combat. But really the one thing that marks it out as better is the fact that it is a vampire, so it can march and isn't affected by the general's death.

Any other views or ideas would be highly appreciated. Thanks for reading!

Post: #2

In my opinion the Terrorgheist wins because it fills a role nothing else in the VC army can do effectivly. Monster hunting.
Well a vampire lord with a frostblade can do it but that is very risky.

Post: #3

The REAL trick is to run them together

Move the Terrorgheist first so he can march (just don't move him too fast) then follow with the varghulf. Yeah the TG's flight advantage is kinda gimped by this tactic but marching them both makes up for it.

VG+TG killing power is a sight to behold; 9 St 5 attacks(4 poisoned,5 with hatered), ~13-Ld 'auto-wounds', and ~7 more St 5 hits from stomps. This is core/small unit killing incarnate.

Regen and WS of TG need a little tweak, even just a 1 tick improvement would work, but otherwise D@MN.

Post: #4

If you put them against each other, I'd say the Varghulf wins. The Varghulf is a real workhorse, he always perform, against all armies.
The Terrorgheist is a picky one. He doesn't like Lizardmen, he has to hide like a little girl from all those blowdart Skinks. On average it takes 7 wounds to kill him, and 8 to kill the Varghulf. I wouldn't say that his low Ld is much of a problem after the first turn, as a 10" Fly and 8" scream is plenty when you're already in enemy lines, but it can be a liability in deployment.
Also, the size difference is a big one up for the Varghulf. The TG is just silly.

But the TG fills a unique role as mentioned. Not so much a monster killer, but a way to deal with a Bloodthirster and a Pendant Lord. A shame that it's so fragile and pretty crappy in combat, for such a big monster.

Post: #5

Agreed with all the points above really.

The Terrorgeist is a niche filler: strong against Knights, Monsters (to some extent), and other small elite units. It's also valuable to redirect a portion of your opponent's army. Second turn, when you're behind their lines, they don't have a choice but to send something to deal with it.

The Varghulf is a combat beastie, as mentioned. So yes, it is a better all-comer in that sense, but won't be able to deal with the niche units (of which there are some in most any army) that the Terrorgeist can typically.

So, personally I have been using the Terrorgeist simply because I haven't felt the need for a Varghulf's punch in my lists. It allows my Grave Guard to deal with other heavy infantry and whatnot than having them try to chase Knights and such around.

I don't really feel like one is necessarily better than another, especially considering the 50 someodd points difference, but I do like how the Terrorgeist fits in how I run my army better.

Post: #6

I hadn't really thought about it being more of a specialised monster, but now it makes a lot of sense. Although I can't help thinking that a Tomb banshee does the same job(with it's death scream thingy), albeit worse, but for a much reduced cost in points. And it's arguably more durable(especially against warmachines) because it's ethereal and fairly fast because of it's 6 inch movement. So I think a moderately sized unit of cairn wraiths with a Tomb banshee going around with a varghulf would be pretty good.

Post: #7

Banshee, on average, does 0 wounds with a scream (assuming LD9). The Terrorgheist does 4 wounds, on average, against LD9. Huge difference.

Post: #8

Battle Report on the TG/VG combo:

I was at a store vs store tourney last night. We did 2k armies first in a 1vs1 battle then a 2vs2.

My 1vs1 was against Brets, though the TG dropped in the 2nd turn he was felled by an ASF Heroic Killing Blow and 1 shot screamed a unit of pegasus knights to death first.

2vs2 my VC allied with my brother's Lizardmen vs Empire & Wood Elves. Both TG and VG survived to end of 3rd turn, their kill list? TG: 10 WE archers, a Treeman, and 3/4 a fairly mean sounding Empire chariot (sorry not familiar enough with Emps.) VG: 15 Eternal Guard, other 8 archers and the Spellsinger in their unit, and 2 Empire mortars. VG took 2 wounds, TG none. Due to failed charges and manoeuvring problems not a one of my other units made CC. Despite my ally taking heavy losses to his Saurus, Chameleon Skinks, and a cannon blast to his Salamander with no enemy units axed we won by ~400pts.


I whole heartedly agree the 6+ regen is a joke, 5+ atleast with 4+ preferred. Honestly though... a WS of 3!! WTH? The thing is a giant undead carnivorous bat 4 WS is a must even if ONLY for the defensive reasons of keeping Clanrats and zombies from whittling his toes into oblivion.

Post: #9

Two points nobody mentioned yet:

- the terrorgheist, because of its size, attracts basically every missile on the field, be it spells, canonballs or arrows.

- but the terrorgheist can be the mount of a vampire, and that largely compensates his crappy combat profile.

All in all, I don't have a preference between the two. But anyway, I prefer 3 wraiths to a varghulf (15 ethereals attacks compared to 5 with hatred, who would hesitate?). But that's another debate.

But let's wait for the new book!

Post: #10

My answer to the question: take both.

In all seriousness, they fill different roles, and by taking both you fill both roles, rather than leaving one empty.

Post: #11

Take whichever one you like the model of.....

Post: #12

Of course if you do get the Terrorgheist, and assemble it as such, you will get a shiny Ghoul King, Blood Dragon and a few zombie dragon bits that you can do something with. Which is all pretty groovy. And on reflection, the Terrorgheist is as skilled as a giant, and masses of people use them......

It seems, having read the army book, neither the Terrorgheist or the Varghulf have changed much. But then, what did I expect?

Post: #13

I think they both have different roles, to me the Terroghiest is almost like a flying warmachine with its Shriek. Both have viable uses but it depends on the synergy of your army.

I personally will be using the Terrorgheist as a stand alone monster, much for the reason that I love the model.

Post: #14

(01-12-2012 10:33 PM)Count Darvaleth Wrote:  My answer to the question: take both.

In all seriousness, they fill different roles, and by taking both you fill both roles, rather than leaving one empty.

I tend to agree actually The Varghulf has a few advantages, it can march move, it has a much smaller base, I4 (pit of shades/purple sun).

Post: #15

In smaller games, a varghulf is probably better because of its' versatility, as opposed to the Terrorgheist which is very specialised towards heavy infantry and cavalry. But in larger games, the Terrorgheist is actually more useful.

Post: #16

Personally, I'll be taking the terrorgheist to suppliment my CC. Yes, he's squishy, but still, 6 wounds? It's relatively cheap too. I plan to use his Death Shreik to my full advantage though. Either bogging a unit down with some summoned zombies and shreiking them to death, or supplimenting an ongoing combat (Especially now eve charges are LD based).

Sure, varghulf is a great flank hitter, with good mobility, but the terrorgheist is excellent general support, can move over units, and lays waste to quite a lot of things, and can be used to seriously hurt enemy lords/heros. for example, I can see it laughing all over my khornate exalted one on Juggernaut's 1+ armour save.

Edit: And think of supporting him with dark majesty and/or that lovely -3 leadership spell in shadow! he'd wade through R'n'F, knights, heroes.. Pretty much anything that can't take him out quick.

Post: #17

Quote:Sure, varghulf is a great flank hitter, with good mobility, but the terrorgheist is excellent general support, can move over units, and lays waste to quite a lot of things, and can be used to seriously hurt enemy lords/heros. for example, I can see it laughing all over my khornate exalted one on Juggernaut's 1+ armour save.

So really,we should use Terrorgheists against armies who rely on death star units led by uber-characters, as they would easily be taken down without their equipment. So lets think, that'll be..........vampire counts. But seriously, Varghulfs should be used against horde armies that don't need their characters that much, like skaven, the Empire and Orcs and Goblins.

Post: #18

Varghulfs -can't- influence others to march. It's only the army general (If it's a vampire) that can, Varghulfs can only march themselves.

And I quote:

Models with the vampric special rule never suffers wounds because of a destroyed general, and unless they have joined a non-Vampire unit they (and their mounts) can make march moves as normal.

Meaning: Only IT can march, not things around it, as stated before, only the army general can influence other units marching possibilities.

Post: #19

Not Really... there are two points...

i mean... The Varghulf Has More Mobility... because can march anyway, while the Therrorgheist cannot march if is too far from the Bad boy, and if the Bad Boy die you lose anyway so the Leadership of the Terrogheist is useless...

cut the mobility by 10 is a lot... and is not so useful if cannot Take the good position for Scream. and the best Part of the Beast is Wasted.

with a Theme Army you can Make 2 Terrogheist a one Ghoul King With 5+ regeneration, Fly and also Anti-Hero... i don't know if is good Red Fury (points problem)... (technically the Ghoul King is able to Kill a whole unit alone) but this is good because you can Combo the King with your Terror dude...

Fly + Dark Majestity is a Good Second Combo with another Terrogheist or Skabscratch (if the match is 2250~2300 Points i think you are able to use 4 Scream 3 terror dudes and one sword) but you need add +1W to the Ghoul or is damn Hard to survive or hit with scream.

Another set is Without the Ghoul But using a Magic Skill Lore of Death with the Lord/Master and Scream combo to Dark Majesty (thrall + Hellsteed) Doom and Darkeness Spell... (gap the Leadership of the enemy) you are able to kill everyone if is well used...

anyway the Terrorgheist is so easy to Kill, 6+ with STR 1 and is one woud. (cuz 6+ regen is ridicolous)

So depends on your enemy, anyway the Varghulf is not Large target and is easyer to hide, if warmachine with D6 wouds hit you you can easly save the Varghulf

Sorry if it is long to read :/ i just wrote... and sorry for Bad english...

Post: #20

I assume when you say "Bad boy", that's the army general? If it is........I really I should start saying that too. I see what your saying though: The terrorgheist can't be left on its own, it has to be used in conjunction with a character, or even better,as a mount for a Ghoul King. Some pretty good tips, Well done.