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Zanos

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jul 23, 2009
1,387
So, I'm going to be running Daemons of Chaos for 'Ard Boyz in 2010 (oh how much I expect people will hate me for it) and I've come down to a choice. I am definitely running a bloodthirster, but have to decide now between Kairos Fateweaver, and a level 4 Great Unclean One with the balesword and noxious vapors. On one hand, Fateweaver is a stupidly good and mobile wizard, and defnitely seems like he could help me with a number of things. However, the GUO is also a good wizard, and can easily deal with dragons and other large targets. Opinions?
 

The Inspector

Vargheist
Aug 25, 2007
688
1800's England
Absolutely no competition between the two choices.

Fateweaver is the number one tournament inclusion for a Daemonic list. He is disgusting, and in a circus like 'Ard Boyz you won't be the only general fielding him.

and can easily deal with dragons and other large targets
Anything that is worried by the giant slug won't go near it. Particularly the flying hazards, such as Dragons - which your Bloodthirster should be eating, anyway.
 

Zanos

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jul 23, 2009
1,387
Right, thanks, heres a little list I whipped up.

3000 PTS ARD BOYZ

Lords & Heroes

Kairos Fateweaver

Ka'Bandha the Decapitator (bloodthirster) - Obsidian Armor, Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury

Bloodflayer (herald of khorne) - Juggernaught, Obsidian Armor

Vilegut (Herald of Nurgle) - Palanquin, level 1 wizard, noxious vapours, slime trail

Core - 10 pink horrors

17 Plaguebearers, musician and standard of seeping decay (Vilegut goes here)

15 bloodletters, full command

15 bloodletters, full command

Special - 5 Flesh hounds and Karanak

Rare - 4 Flamers

2 Bloodcrushers (Bloodreaper, Standard Bearer, Bloodflayer goes here)

Total points is 2997/3000, PD = 8, DD = 6
 

TMS

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Nov 26, 2008
4,662
Sweden
You're unlikely to get the most mileage out of Fateweaver with a mere 8 PD in a 3,000-points cheesefest though. You'd have to build the army around Kairos to get the most of it. In your current army I'd go for the GUO, personally. :)
 
Nov 6, 2009
143
The real trick to a tournament like this is to do the unexpected.

I see tons of Fateweaver type lists. They work well, but are trite and worn-out. Get creative, and you will start owning these "stock" demon lists.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Aug 15, 2007
4,834
I agree, I once took a Warriors of Chaos army to a no comp tournament, and it was amazing all the tricks I was pulling off- reducing Cold One Knights S and T values, killing a Master with Word of Agony, then Bloodskull Pendant turning my Sorcerer Lord into a killing machine, Titillating Delusions causing a Hydra to wander off where I wanted, a Bloodcurdling Roar killing a few Elves here and there, every time my opponent went to do something I would go "AHA! First off I get to do this..!", and I left the tournament with three losses as a result! Tricks are good, but only win the game when they're powergaming tricks.
 

Johnny B

Grave Guard
Sep 21, 2009
283
London
Well, if you're going for the win and don't care what people think, go all out.

A Kairos list should include the Scribes as mentioned, a couple of Heralds (Master of Sorcery maybe?), possibly one with the Bound spell banner (D6 S6 I think) and a few units of Horrors. Chuck in Flesh Hounds for some melee ability (plus the magic resistance of course), Flamers for shooty fun, 1-2 lone Fiends to hunt war machines and you're all set. Perhaps even a Lord of Change. Could even go for Skulltaker/Masque too. Perhaps all Khorne with dual Bloodthirsters? Its still hideous but at least it doesn't autowin in every phase... just the important ones...

I'd much rather take a gun to a knife fight, than a fancy knife that does all sorts of tricks that will dazzle and amaze.

Taking DoC is the equivalent of taking a bazooka to a knife fight xD
 

Zanos

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jul 23, 2009
1,387
Well, I would like a particularly hideous list, but I'd like it based somewhat on the current one. I've got no problem shaving some bloodletters off and taking off the khorny herald and crushers for more horrors, but things like the thirster and bearers I'd like to keep.
 

The Inspector

Vargheist
Aug 25, 2007
688
1800's England
Zanos said:
but things like the thirster and bearers I'd like to keep.

And so you should, they are both abominable.

As much as I loath myself for doing this, I imagine a maximised Daemons 3k list to be as follows:


Kairos
Bloodthirster (standard build)

Scribes
Skulltaker
Nurgle herald BSB

Large unit of Plaguebearers, with accompanying Horror units (one of which Skulltaker could reside in?)

A handful of Flesh Hound units

Maximum Flamers as points allow


What an abhorrent list. You must remember that there is no significantly 'bad' choices within a Daemon army. Every unit in the book is arguably competitive and somehow effective beyond it's allocated points value. Some units are more broken than others (Flamers being top of the pack, for example), which is why you'll perhaps see them fielded over other units.
 

Zanos

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jul 23, 2009
1,387
But....but...skulltaker...horrors...*head explode*.

Anyway, something I threw together to better support Fateweaver.

Kairos
Thirster (You all know the build by now)
Blue Scribes
HoN, quin, BSB
HoT, Mastery of Sorcery, Spell Breaker

15 bloodletters, blood reaper and Icon of Eternal War
18 plaguebearers, full command, Standard of Seeping Decay
10 horrors
10 horrors
10 horrors

5 FHounds

6 flamers
3 flamers
 
Nov 6, 2009
143
The real trick to a tournament like this is to do the unexpected.

Or, just take pure power. I'd much rather take a gun to a knife fight, than a fancy knife that does all sorts of tricks that will dazzle and amaze.
[/quote]


With the invention of the internet, everyone brings the same damn army.
Does anyone have any creativity anymore, or would we just prefer to do the same as the next idiot on the internet?
These demon lists are f-'ing 'orrible, but that is GW: make an army so easy; even a caveman can do it!
 

The Inspector

Vargheist
Aug 25, 2007
688
1800's England
StirogiPerogi said:
With the invention of the internet, everyone brings the same damn army.
Does anyone have any creativity anymore, or would we just prefer to do the same as the next idiot on the internet?
These demon lists are f-'ing 'orrible, but that is GW: make an army so easy; even a caveman can do it!

Never seen a 'help me build a no-comp tournament list' thread before?
 

gardeth

Zombie
Jan 25, 2010
23
Here's the list that I fought to a draw (i managed to get more battle points tho :) ) in the final round of last years 'Ard Boyz Semi's.

Great Unclean One - Lvl 4, trappings of Nurgle, Staff of nurgle
Herald of Nurgle - lvl 1, planquin, Staff of Nurgle
Herald of Nurgle - lvl 1, planquin, Staff of Nurgle
Herald of Tzeentch - chariot, MoS, bsb, Hellfire banner
Herald of Tzeentch - MoS

29 Horrors - +1 casting banner
30 Horrors - +1 Casting Banner
11 plague bearers - command
11 plague bearers - command

20 power dice 4 bound spells...made for the most gruelling magic phases I have ever endured. Just glad my VC list was CC oriented and didn't require much magic to work.
 

Campbellstein

Grave Guard
Oct 20, 2009
232
In that list you fought they use the same magic items regularly

staff of nurgle x 3
casting banner x 2

is this allowed in the rules or are they not magic items?
 

gardeth

Zombie
Jan 25, 2010
23
Thats one of the broken things about the daemon army book. Those things are "Gifts" and not magic items so you can take multiples or even combine multiple gifts of the same type.
 
Jul 28, 2009
134
England
I'd personally not build a fateweaver "list" my friend has the doc book (he doesn't actually play them tho lol) and it took me a long time to coax the book out of him because he has reservations about me using them (not to brag but I am more than an apt general lol) I've had many sucsesses with my vamps over many years (original started when they where just undead) if I where you I'd go for duel blood thirsters,that is if your wanting to win lol,a very mobile khorne/slaneesh army seems the way to go to me :) fast attacks on the flank with duel bloodthirsters would be nasty and you can use he two powerhouses to neutrolize any threats,any way just my suggestions,good luck squire :)
 
Feb 28, 2008
694
i think you are much better off giving the BT a flaming sword to smack other peoples regen stuff (hugely increasing eg abomination, DE, hydra, WoC, throgg troll army).

secondly kairos is good an all, but he aint nothing when he's been sirened into a bloodthirster....
 

gardeth

Zombie
Jan 25, 2010
23
illusionarypresence said:
secondly kairos is good an all, but he aint nothing when he's been sirened into a bloodthirster....

Bloodthirster can't have siren, thats pretty much only for the Keeper of Secrets, and the keeper would be hard pressed to survive Kairos' magic phase up close.
 

Campbellstein

Grave Guard
Oct 20, 2009
232
how do demon armies do below 2000 points? everything seems to revolve around the greater demons and barring a few units everything else seems much less powerful.

for example khorne
bloodthirster - evil devil creature that eats armies for breakfast
blood letters - toughness 3 and naked
 

gardeth

Zombie
Jan 25, 2010
23
The greater daemons are real power houses, but then again the rest of the army isn't that nice either, true bloodletters are only T3 but str 5 and killing blow and a 5++. Pink horrors are wizards and plaguebearers with a herald just don't die. All the heralds (save Slaanesh) are pretty damned impressive, as are flesh hounds and flamers.

And thats the problem, while there are units that aren't that great in the daemon army book, you can completely avoid them and just take the good stuff. IE a greater daemon, a few heralds, pink horrors or plaguebearers, some flesh hounds and flamers and maybe a unit or two of furies and walla, a nasty nasty army.
 

Johnny B

Grave Guard
Sep 21, 2009
283
London
how do demon armies do below 2000 points? everything seems to revolve around the greater demons and barring a few units everything else seems much less powerful.

I have played against a few 'No Greater Daemon' lists at 2k, they are still very hard. The main problem is the sheer number of fast, multiple attack units they can bring. For armies with a fair number of war machines and/or medium units they are a nightmare. I would imagine they would suffer a little against armies with super heavy units like Steam Tanks/Engines, plus the lack of a Ld 9 general is also noticeable. They tend to do badly against VCs in my experience, as its generally the Greater Daemons that give us headaches. As mentioned already, the fact that you can mix and match gods freely means they are invariably a combination of the best troops.

Bloodthirster can't have siren, thats pretty much only for the Keeper of Secrets, and the keeper would be hard pressed to survive Kairos' magic phase up close.
Herald with Siren Song on Steed of Slaanesh moves up 20" with the Thirster in base contact, Sirens Kairos in and splat. That tactic is one of the reasons why 'The' GT Bloodthirster list is so powerful. Didn't stop a Kairos list winning the recent GT Heats mind.
 

gardeth

Zombie
Jan 25, 2010
23
Johnny B said:
Bloodthirster can't have siren, thats pretty much only for the Keeper of Secrets, and the keeper would be hard pressed to survive Kairos' magic phase up close.
Herald with Siren Song on Steed of Slaanesh moves up 20" with the Thirster in base contact, Sirens Kairos in and splat. That tactic is one of the reasons why 'The' GT Bloodthirster list is so powerful. Didn't stop a Kairos list winning the recent GT Heats mind.

Eww dirty! I might use that actually.....
 

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