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TVC II OOC Feedback

Discussion in 'The Vampire Council II: OOC Discussion' started by Disciple of Nagash, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Disciple of Nagash

    Disciple of Nagash The Perverted One Staff Member TVC II GM

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    Right then!

    So I have been doing some serious speed reading (over 200 A4 pages worth!) and have caught up. Now I have decided to give some feedback, something which I would normally do anyway when posting. Now I’ll be honest, the below would be classed as criticism however it is constructive, unbiased, and should be taken at face value. It is just based on previous experience with the last TVC and to be honest, pretty much all of it happened with us oldies back then. We just had to learn the hard way, instead of having someone with more experience around to give us feedback.

    But, just before we get to that I do want to say one thing. You all, especially the new players (as the old ones know what they are doing anyway xD ), have done really well. The level of detail and effort put in has been fantastic, you have been inventive, and considering I disappeared for a good while, it was handled very well. The below comments are a small part; overall you should all be pretty pleased with your efforts so far.

    So then, onto the feedback….(dun dun DAH!)…..

    You are not invulnerable….
    One of the first things I noticed is that some characters are acting with impunity. Not all the times, but certainly some of the time. By that I mean not just the battle where some of the characters just went on a mental killing spree, but also previously by their words. It seems that all the players think that as they control their characters, they are reasonably immune to really bad things happening – you are not. Basically the RP is worked on a “realistic” response. So an example, if your character (alone) walks into another vampire’s castle, calls him all the names under the sun (moon?) and then spits in their face…..well I would actually let the other player have his powerful bodyguard beat the crap out of you and stuff you in the dungeon. It would be your fault for having your character do something so silly in the first place. I did almost face palm when Graveclaw came bowling in a Simon (loved how Simon resolved it).
    So basically, think before you act. Whilst there are rules to stop others kicking the crap out of you, if you do something silly, the other player can PM and ask if they can respond “realistically” if they are unsure.

    The other part of this section is dealing with battle. At first it was exciting……and then not so much……and then at certain points I’ll be honest, I did glaze over a bit. Why? Because in many cases it was Minor bad guys > Character slaughters ten at a time > Bad guy leader > character slaughters > powerful bad guy / machine > character(s) show own uber powers / deux ex machina and slaughters.

    Yes we know your characters are powerful, but they are in no way invulnerable, and many of the powers are weakened at the moment. I am not saying you won’t win, but make it interesting. You should get hurt, take a blow. You might even fail but something else happens. Be inventive, but please don’t just have your character walking around like an untouchable god slaughtering everything in their path. Remember, your enemies are smart and powerful too. They have their own tactics and abilities. We want this to be interesting and fun reading as well. My post with Rowhaine (will be up shortly after this) will give some kind of indication what I mean.

    Also one important think – vampires etc are intelligent and as such do feel fear. There is no shame in accurately portraying this, even if your character feels it but does not express it.


    No mind reading!
    Unlike some RP’s, TVC II is a story. So unlike say the VAU, where you shouldn’t write your character’s thoughts, it is positively encouraged here, to add to the depth of the story. However players must make it clear they are thoughts, and more importantly, other players must not react as if they can read them! I saw some posts where one character was saying something and then thought something, to which another player responding something to after somehow seeing it in their eyes or movements. “Oh god, I need the toilet Spongebob thought. Squidworth could see the flicker in Spongebob’s eyes, seeing the almighty dump he was holding deep inside”. NO SQUIDWORTH! – You cannot read minds like that! xD Again, remember that all the other characters are powerful characters in their own right, no doubt having spent many time hiding things etc. They will not be an open book for you to read. The only exceptions should if a character is noted as being expressive / emotive, your character has the noted ability to mind read / read other characters (which should show in your bio)……or the other player actually posts that their character let the thought show on their face.


    You will respect my authority…….ahem….powers…..
    So some players have unusual or special abilities which are very noticeable……yet somehow many characters seem to not even notice (which could just be down to not realising) or more annoying in my mind, immediately developing immunity to it. Granted some characters are exceptions due to their abilities / equipment, but they should be the exception rather than the norm (and should check either with me or the player with the power). A good example is Karl; his bio shows he has an impressive aura of respect etc, especially being the direct son of Vlad. Yet most players (whilst some recognised it), acted as if it didn’t exist. I am not saying the players had to be grovelling on their knees, but even a passing reference now and again, say when speaking to him….With a flare of anger Milosh made to retort to the Regent, fighting against the smothering effect his aura emitted. The character might still go onto to say something insulting, but at least he has recognised it was not easy.
    Players with this type if powers should also mention them, not in every post, but now and again to gently remind us as we hardly memorise the bios.


    …but also respect my body
    In conjunction with the last post, another noted thing was that players were posting what other characters felt when they did something. DoN turned his smouldering gaze onto Darvy, eyes like obsidian, seemingly burning into his very soul –. Now unless you are a long term player with permission to RP other characters (for example, myself, GoW, Simon are all happy for small actions because we have done this together so long), this is where is should stop. However I saw many posts like -Darvy felt a chill down his spine, his legs turning to water as he leaned forward with…. xD . That is not for me to say, that is for the player controlling that character to say. Yes I know that some players don’t react as they should (hence my previous point), however the best way is to instead say something in the OOC thread / PM me etc. Better you stick to doing the right think, posting just for your character, rather than posting the actions of someone else just to get the right reaction. If a player is not being fair and is making his character immune to every possible negative thing that could affect his character I will deal with it.


    Stick to your character
    One other thing I noticed is that some characters varied quite substantially from their bio and / or started as one preset and suddenly morphed into another character either due to conversations, maybe wanting to get on with other characters etc. Please don’t do this, remain true to who you are! The best examples I can give are Simon and Mircea. Those who have read TVC I will know how Simon and Gree stuck to their characters traits through hell or high water, regardless of how much they didn’t get on with others etc. They were arrogant Carsteins who drank human blood and looked down on everyone else, and they stayed that way! Not only was it more interesting than having a room full of nice twilight vampires, those players gained a lot of respect (including my own) for really sticking to their ideas.
    So if you are a vampire hater – stay as one. Yes you may be diplomatic if your character has the brains to be, however that doesn’t mind you need to start hugging one another xD Likewise please stick to your presets, the most notable one for me was Morturian (not picking there were others), doing a lot of close combat with his scythe. As above, the enemy are skilled, smart warriors as well. If you character does not rank high in close combat, then it would not be expected for you to go around killing lots of people in this fashion.


    I hope the above all makes sense, and again I hope no one takes this negatively. As a said, in general the posts have been great. Things just need reigning in a little and players need to remember you can be hurt / be affected by powers / be outsmarted etc.

    Let me know if there are any questions.
     
  2. Disciple of Nagash

    Disciple of Nagash The Perverted One Staff Member TVC II GM

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    Oh yes I knew I forgot something!


    Howdy guys!......
    I have noticed some of the terminology used is not....well not words I think people of the Old World would be used to. Remember a lot of this is Dark Ages - Victorian / Steam Punk. So things like "guys" "screwed" etc don't really fit, whether your character is thinking, talking or you are describing his actions. I am not saying they need to be saying "For sooth, thou art a scoundrel", but think more formally. Sweeney's / Todds posts are an excellent example of this.

    Also please note that what many of the units are called in the armybook (example Hell Pit Abomination), would not be what they are actually referred to by most people in this world. In fact a lot of things would have never been countered before. So yes I can well imagine a wraith is called as such, but I can't really see many people actually knowing them as Cairn Wraiths.


    I hope I haven't forgotten anything else.....xD
     
  3. Mello

    Mello Hasn't left TVC for the rest of the forum True Blood

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    And you were wondering whether we still wanted you! This is pure gold, Thankyou. :'(

    Can I ask your opinion on whether Alastor was overpowered I'm the fighting? Get and I had already decided he'd be immune to Karl's power as a "complete spoil recluse" perk. Also, are you happy with music being in the IC thread? And I know Alastor was really offensive to Karl and Simon. But I was trying to go along the "so ignorant of social norms he's so offensive it's amusing" did that come out? And do I stick to my character? I'm all worried now..
     
  4. Disciple of Nagash

    Disciple of Nagash The Perverted One Staff Member TVC II GM

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    Don't be worried xD

    If you agreed with the immunity then it is fine. Whilst your character has done some things, you have done so inline with your character, being ignorant of the social norms gives you justification - they only thing to be aware of is that if Simon finally has enough and puts Alastor in a time out, he would have good reason to xD

    As for OP in the fighting. Not so much....just a bit one sided. Alastor whilst a vampire is unskilled. Skaven whilst weaker, still are skilled to some extent and the fighting should reflect that if that makes sense?
     
  5. Mello

    Mello Hasn't left TVC for the rest of the forum True Blood

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    Oh I'm perfectly aware of that :konrad: Alastor is designed to walk a fine line between insanity and death by insult

    Makes sense, so Alastor will be taking a lot of hits, but surviving them, and will miss a lot but completely own when he does make contact? Oh are you happy with the playing cards being a weapon?
     
  6. Shareya

    Shareya Vampire Count True Blood

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    *mumbles*

    Someone still needs to make up a new (sane) Lahmian for this, someone who I can harass.
    Also the DoN sure is diplomatic o.o I am used to WoW's forums and topics like this usually start with flamethrowers being pulled out. Was a lovely read!
     
  7. Mello

    Mello Hasn't left TVC for the rest of the forum True Blood

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    DoN, sereth and I are on chat if you want to join us, I still feel a little worried about my char..
     
  8. Get of W'soran

    Get of W'soran CN's Lord of Masks True Blood TVC II GM

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    Aye the immunity had good cause, I liked the idea of Alastor's messed up mind having a benefit xD

    Anywhos Cheers for taking the time to do the feedback DoN :)
     
  9. Kavok

    Kavok Wight King

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    So... now I'm a bit worried as well... Fairly certain I'm fine on the first two points, if anything I may be underselling Kavok's power... Though I guess it hasn't been a straight one on one for him... And I don't think I've done any meta-gaming... I hope I've at least learned how to avoid that with how long I've been role playing...

    But the the third point I probably should have done a little better with it. The example for Karl's aura, I probably should have noted it more then I did (if I noted it at all... can't quite remember...). Hmm... I could probably go on for a bit on very negative things for this about my character, but I don't think I'd be satisfied with what I write and would prevent me from pushing the post button. Someone else's opinion would probably be helpful...

    The fourth point I know I shouldn't have a problem with... Please tell me if I'm wrong here... I'm not sure why, but I just feel odd when I try to put something in for another person's character. I just don't feel like I've gotten the character right when I do it...

    Next point... have I stuck to my character? I hope so... but I'm starting to doubt myself here... I sadly suck at character profiles... I largely end up not thinking of much because I suck at telling people about my characters, I'm much better at showing my characters (I hope that made sense... and I also hope I am good at showing the character.) Though I have found myself adding small things to my characters that I thought would be cool, but didn't want to create a whole new character for it, and they end up piling up if the character goes on long enough... I've managed to create some weird characters in the past cause of this... really weird...

    Last point... I thought about this once or twice... I'm not sure how well I've done here. Either I've done really well or I've done terribly. I at least hope I've been constant. Some comments on how I've been doing here would be greatly appreciated.

    Always good to improve on my role playing abilities. Lots of games that I play seem to have an element of it somewhere within it. Pathfinder being a current system me and my friends are adventuring forth in... But I'm starting to ramble onto other topics now... Actually I find I do that a lot with my character. I do try to have him focus again, but he does it sometimes anyways... I'm thinking that is alright... Hope it is...
     
  10. Lynks

    Lynks Lord of RAW Staff Member True Blood

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    Kavok, if you want to improve on your roleplaying abilities, I heard there was this really cool new RP starting, especially for that :innocent:
     
  11. Mello

    Mello Hasn't left TVC for the rest of the forum True Blood

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    I can't speak for DoN, obviously, but I thought your character was the most well done (ie done properly) out of the whole RP. The only two things I can think of is that you use modern speak in the internal monologue (for example "anyways") and you did fail to mention Karl's aura, which would have crushed you quite a bit. But that pales in comparison to other's (mine included) errors, so don't worry :clown:
     
  12. Malochai

    Malochai Moderator Staff Member True Blood

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    Right - now I can actually see this :slapface:

    Cheers for the feedback, DoN! I hope I haven't been too much a perpetrator of things like this =\

    EDIT: I do realise that I need to tone down Markus' bloodlust in battle. He is supposed to be controlled and ferocious whilst killing. I'll change that from now!
     
  13. Disciple of Nagash

    Disciple of Nagash The Perverted One Staff Member TVC II GM

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    Kavok - your character was excellent. The way you interacted with the vampires as a human etc was extremely well done, combining with your conflict over how to act.

    If I pinpoint your particular areas to note - yes just ensure as a human you note the powers which may affect you more. The second thing is using modern language, try to ensure you use language related to the time period.

    I did enjoy reading your posts, so you are doing something right xD
     
  14. Kavok

    Kavok Wight King

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    Alright, kinda felt like I was a bit modern in my speech... I probably should spend a bit of time after writing up the post to look through and see if I can't change the wording to be a bit less modern.... But after spending an hour or two typing it up so that the actions and messages are as thought out as I want them to be, I find myself just wanting to be done with it.

    And right... there is that new RP I've been seeing a few posts for... Hmm... I may have to look into that some more...

    Edit: Forgot to refresh... Thanks for the comments, I will try to be better about powers like the aura and the like...
     
  15. The Dread King

    The Dread King Moderator Staff Member True Blood TVC II GM

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    Sorry about Morty's close combat, DoN. If you noticed, a lot of the attacks against him hit him; I thought that would show that he was a bad fighter. However, his armour saved the day lots of times. Yeah also Morty has been a bit too compassionate; it's just that he was being even more disagreeable than his bio suggested in the council chambers. I'm a bit of a noob RPer (first online RP) so I do need this feedback thread to keep me on the right track.
     
  16. Chaos_Born

    Chaos_Born Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Here's my feedback:

    SLOW DOWN

    I'll never read through it at this rate. How you managed DoN I'll never know
     
  17. The Archivist

    The Archivist Archivist of the word The Staff Member True Blood

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    DoN, I'd just like confirmation that taking over the skaven forces was OK and that none of the army tactics are particularly outside the realm of reality (I'm thinking the 'Bouncing Betty' style mines might have been a bit over the top).
     
  18. Count Darvaleth

    Count Darvaleth I <3 marmite Staff Member True Blood

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    I quite liked the mines, myself. Feel free to contradict me, everyone, but I don't think "bouncing betties" are beyond the field of Skaven technology. They have cannons that shoot lightning, for goodness' sake. :clown:
     
  19. Bounce

    Bounce Varghulf

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    Thanks for the advice. As my first roleplay how am i doing? I often feel i am not writing enough or not paying enough attention to all the small details in each post.
     
  20. Sweeney Todd

    Sweeney Todd Moderator Staff Member True Blood

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    This. So much this. I'm glad someone(and who else could it be other than DoN) finally decided to come out and post everything that was said here.
     
  21. Zanos

    Zanos Vampire Count True Blood

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    I hope I'm not doing too bad...

    other than not being able to keep up with you people. :D
     
  22. Dark_Wolfen

    Dark_Wolfen Grave Guard

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    How far does Karls power go? I haven't been in close contact with him, so didn't think about being affected by his powers at the time. When I do however, I had planned for Nimrais to succumb and feint. :tongue:
     
  23. Get of W'soran

    Get of W'soran CN's Lord of Masks True Blood TVC II GM

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    Eh not really sure exactly. It's fairly extensive, everyone in the main hall would have felt it to some degree and it increases in power the closer you are.
    Eye contact also makes it more effective.
     
  24. Disciple of Nagash

    Disciple of Nagash The Perverted One Staff Member TVC II GM

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    So a couple of things from the above.

    Firstly, and more important, a big thank you to you all. Already many of the posts have had a marked improvement. The characters now look like they are in a real battle, acting more in character etc. I don't know what the rest of you feel, but personally it has made it much more exciting and interesting.

    An example is Morty's escape from death. The way he was nearly destroyed, and then saved himself by sacrificing his minions - so much in character, really well thought out :thumbsup:

    As an addition to the above feedback, another thing to note is spacing. A large block of text can be overwhelming, whereas proper spacing makes things much more easier to read. The best example is GoW - his posts are perfectly spaced out and make much easier reading, I would suggest you all check and try and format in a similar fashion.

    All in all, great work and also thank you all for taking the time to read the points I made and learn from them. :thumbsup:
     
  25. the hidden one

    the hidden one Streets Ahead

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    Oops. Yeah, I have been mainly posting blocks of solid text, which after reading over have been kind of scary to read. I'll stop doing that from now on. And I too think I have been guilty of not realizing karl's aura, though I don't think that it would work as much on me, seeing as I never made eye contact and didn't ever get very close to him.
     

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