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  3. The General's handbook has been updated, what fun awaits the undying hordes?

Generals Handbook II preview

Discussion in 'Gateway to the Realms' started by Malisteen, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Brace yourselves. A points hike was expected for some of the tomb kings stuff, Settra and Necroknights in particular were underpriced rather criminaly, but it's hard not to see this as an overreaction:

    [​IMG]

    LINK

    Settra: +100 points
    Necroknights: +80 points
    SSC: +40 points
    Royal Warsphinx: +100 points
    Necrosphinx: +40 points
    Kemmler: +40 points
    VL on AT: +80 points, is now a behemoth in addition to a leader

    Just... Ouch. Again, Settra, Necroknights, and the Royal Warsphinx were underpriced, but not by that much! And I've never seen the necrosphinx even once since the first General's Handbook was released, 400 was already too many points for it, so to see it shoot up another 40 is just twisting a knife.

    Apart from the Necrosphinx, I could see all of these needing points hikes, but every one of these hikes feels like double what it should have been, and no points decreases for any of our stuff at all, at least not that made this preview.


    Hopefully some of this gets re-thought before the book is printed, but I have little hope of it.
     
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  2. Oppenheimer

    Oppenheimer Crypt Horror

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    Seems fine to me. Necropolis Knights are under pointed. They hit very hard and regenerate and are very cheap.
    Settra's command ability and crown are incredibly powerful. I think his increase is good. Strange to see the Necrosphinx get even more it was already so high I never field it.
    Annoying that Kemmler got a change and yet still no Krell points at all.
    This does mean that GH2 will have all the compendium units in it though which is good. I hope they fix Bretonnia's wonky unit sizes.
     
  3. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Settra is an 8 wound character. Yes, 360 was too little, but 460 is just way too much. Yes, 160 points was ludicrous for necroknights, but 240 is likewise. 200 would have been completely reasonable. Going from too few points to too many isn't an improvement.

    Again, I'm not saying these units were appropriately priced before, but this feels like a huge overreaction. I mean, compare the Royal Warsphinx or the Necrosphinx to the Frost Lord on Stone Horn and try to tell me that the Sphinxes are appropriately priced at only 20 points less.


    As for unit sizes, it's particularly frustrating that they're sticking with batch pricing. Especially if you happen to play flesh eaters, such that any characters you build leave you with a whole leftover box of essentially unusable models.
     
  4. Oppenheimer

    Oppenheimer Crypt Horror

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    I'm not going to say I'm a points expert so maybe you're right. I always thought Beastclaw raiders were also undercosted though.
     
  5. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    If the stonehorn goes up in price too, then maybe. We'll see.
     
  6. Unas the slayer

    Unas the slayer Wight King

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    Yeah, the same can be said for the SSC.
    Now it's 120, and will go to 160. A dwarfs' cannon is 180, and there's simply no comparison.
    IF they are going to increase the cost for ALL the warmachines in ALL the armies, then it could be OK (especially given the fact that warmachines are overpowered in AoS)
     
  7. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    The SSC exists primarily not as an actual damage source, but as a debuff for scream-based lists. In that context, 120 might have been a bit low, but 160 is again probably too much, unless warmachines in general are going up in price, in which case I could see it.
     
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  8. Aranei

    Aranei Ghoul

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    Seen that pic yesterday. I suppose that in all Grand Alliances, monsters and war machines will go up in point cost generally, while basic infantry will become cheaper. The pick was shown only as an illustration of the changes to come (imo).
     
  9. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    I wouldn't assume that at all. The Fyreslayer monsters didn't get more expensive, they got cheaper. And none of the TK stuff went down in price. And these changes, just these new points, as they are, are meant to be tested alongside the current points costs of everything else, so I doubt there's going to be that much movement apart from what's seen here.
     
  10. Unas the slayer

    Unas the slayer Wight King

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    There’s also another potential factor to consider. Money.
    Increase points cost for élite units shouldn’t reflect on selling. People don't buy lots of varanguards anyway.
    But an increase for typical hordes units could be a drawback, so my baseless hypothesis is that some battlelines could even decrease
     
  11. Infernal Skull

    Infernal Skull Wight King

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    I think Kemmler's increase is very appropriate.

    A regular Necro is 120 for: casting 1 spell, 4+ look out sir, max damage output of 3, unique spell of double pile-in..

    Kemmler was 160 for: casting 2 spells, 2+ look out sir, max damage output of 7, with up to 4 kills resulting in a new skeleton/zombie on a 2+, unique spell of healing everything within 18" (one of the only "healing" spells we have), +1 to unbinding, 2D6" teleport in the hero phase.

    Now he's 200 points all that, which is just fine.
     
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  12. Infernal Skull

    Infernal Skull Wight King

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    PLEASE god, yes. That model is ridiculous. Frostlord on Stonehorn essentially has 26 wounds for the same price as a 12-wound model. And a shitzillion damage output.

    I'm hoping that they'll add 10/20/30 point artifacts (magic items) that players can use to fill those leftover points. I get you on the Flesh eater courtiers. You could probably build all three in the Crypt Horror box as courtiers with a little creativity or spare bits, but with the Ghoul box, if you pull one out to be a courtier, that's NINE guys you can't use.

    Without summoning restrictions, they could be extra models added to existing units for the courtier's ability.
     
  13. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Re: kemmler. Keep in mind that his spell heals models, not units, which considerably restrains its usefulness. It's not bad, but it's nowhere near as good as Vanhel's, imo.

    For his current casting ability, I'd say they overshot the mark... but that 2+ look out sir is pretty crazy, and if we ever see him get access to alliance-level or deathmage spell lores, his casting ability could shoot way up, easily justifying the high points cost. Same with Arkhan, Nagash, and other high priced death multicasters.
     
  14. Infernal Skull

    Infernal Skull Wight King

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    But Kemmler's spell is the only thing (I think) that can heal big monsters, morghasts, characters, etc. Sure, it can't bring back dead skellies, but it can heal all the damaged stuff within range, and that's pretty great.

    He can even teleport with the cloak before casting his spells to get him near a target, or out of unbinding range.
     
  15. Malisteen

    Malisteen Master Necromancer True Blood

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    It's not bad, but it's no vanhels in terms of overall game impact. Damage tends to accumulate on individual targets rather than getting spread widely, and one wound back a turn, at the cost of a casting attempt, only to injured multiwound models, just doesn't tend to be that game changing. Even for a large target that might benefit, you'll usually prevent more damage with a mystic shield than you can heal with his spell.

    It's not a bad option to have available, and Kemmler has a lot else going for him, especially defensively, but in terms of just his particular spell I'd call it a step down from vanhels.

    And if you play Deathrattle heavy, both the Liche Priest and a Tomb Herald offer better buffs as well.

    Again, an available additional spell lore to pull spells from would be a huge boon to Kemmler, potentially enough to make him easily worth his new points cost.
     

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