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Map of Shyish

Discussion in 'Gateway to the Realms' started by Kol Saresk, May 24, 2016.

  1. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    Sorry if there is a thread for this already. I thought I had seen one already, but I couldn't find it.

    Anyway, I was wondering if in the Grand Alliance Death or Power of Balance books, there happened to be a map of Shyish?
     
  2. Malisteen

    Malisteen Vampire Count True Blood

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    No. Here and there we've seen maps of bits of it, but they're all implied to be tiny regions within a much larger, planet scale whole, with no defined relationship between those regions.
     
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  3. Eyeless

    Eyeless Wight King

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    Same can be said for the flesh eaters battle tome. it includes only a tiny region of the realm.
     
  4. Malisteen

    Malisteen Vampire Count True Blood

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    At the moment, its pretty clear that there is no overall map of any of the realms. Its a make it ip as they go thing, rather than a setting with any sort of top down design.
     
  5. Oppenheimer

    Oppenheimer Crypt Horror

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    They made them so vast and fantastical since they want people to feel free to invent their own fan fiction areas in the realms.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
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  6. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    Exactly. There could be no such map because they realms are actually indefinite in size, but different bits we've seen and they are quite good, with lands in the books of the Ironjawz and Fyreslayers being my favorites.
     
  7. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    So basically the maps of Azyrheim(I think that's what it was called) and the Realm of Ghyran are only partial maps because the realms' geography is written as being in a constant state flux like the Chaos Wastes? That's....... actually interesting.
     
  8. Irisado

    Irisado Ancient Vampire Lord Staff Member True Blood

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    I think that you're all being a bit too kind. To my mind, the map doesn't exist because GW hasn't done the necessary work to produce it. In view of the fact that they would have known about Age of Sigmar long before they released it, this is another example of insufficient background and narrative development before it was released. Plenty can be left to the imagination without omitting to produce a map.
     
  9. Borgnine

    Borgnine Moderator Staff Member True Blood

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    I agree with both standpoints ;) On the map of the old world one could invent their own realms and counties without a problem. Yet, I've seen people take this map very seriously and literally, together with all the fluff. Making it all floating around in the space makes it possible to everyone to invent their own lands. I consider that a plus. But still - it's floating around, so there's no borders, no geopolitics, so that's a minus. Or do those things exist? I don't know the new fluff very good.

    And by the way - a question ;) - most pictures and maps I've seen are totally fantastical and over the top. Did they confirm the existence of more down-to-earth realms? Where do the freeguild people live? Is there a place that looks like good old medieval europe, or is everything now flashy, stormy and with fantastical objects in the sky?
     
  10. Oppenheimer

    Oppenheimer Crypt Horror

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    All people in Order live in Azyr I think.
     
  11. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    There's the potential for geopolitics, but I don't currently think there are any currently in existence. I mean, reading the Flesh-eaters battletome, listening to the Search for Nagash, and reading about the Grand Alliance Death book, Shyish seems to have quite a few established communities/city-states and such listed. The Flesh-Eater Court in Helstone, Morrsend, Nulahmia, and the Fallow Kingdom of Voldyr are currently existing(I think?) places in the background. Morrsend even has actual people living in it.

    And if I remember right, the territory the Carrion King originally controlled is split into dozens of Flesh-eater territories that I'd imagine are constantly vying with each other for control. And while I'd imagine ghouls wouldn't have a conceptof trade and such, the Ghoul Kings are supposed to be vampires who think they're nobility, so they might be willing to think up a trade system with other courts.
     
  12. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    No, they are not. They are just different with any variants possible, but their essence is all written in the Mighty battles, so with lots of maps spread out across the books it pretty gives an impression.
    In this case you should not form an opinion that would be so much incorrect and incomplete. Because the Old World was far too small for such lots of adversaries, and pretty much covered. New Realms are vast beyond imagination - so vast it's pointless to try to make them whole. Yes, D&D in all its glory. ;) And... one more difference - all Realms save Azyr are conquered by Chaos, so now it's mostly so that the Chaos armies roam the lands destroying what's yet left untouched and the remnants of all civilizations are living in Azyr or hiding across the other realms. So players must decide and make everything for yourself. I think it's more good than not.
    It's D&D, high fantasy, so you could guess. But still, yes, not all cities and lands are that magical. It just depends.
     
  13. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    Ah, so the realm is a consistent "shape", it's that we're only given only a few pieces of it, so most of the map would end being blank with "here be monsters" written all over it. Kind of like how in 40K, we get a pretty rough idea of how the Imperium looks, but there's still plenty of free space to actually maneuver and create our own planets and such.

    Meanwhile in WHF, most of the Old World was pretty detailed, leaving only enough room for the occasional village or minor city, but nowhere near enough room to create say, an entire Duchy, or something similar. Not unless it was ridiculously small at any rate.
     
  14. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    Exactly.
    Yes, pretty much so. Although they've left behind some lands like Cathay or Nippon without much details, sadly.
     
  15. Borgnine

    Borgnine Moderator Staff Member True Blood

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    I new enough of the new fluff to know that the new world is much more flexible and cosmic - and have an opinion about it :) I didn't know if it's possible to travel from - for example - from Morrsend to Nulahmia on foot, without going through a realm gate.

    And I do really think that Old World provided plenty of space to make one's own things in it quite freely. All the provinces of the Empire, Bretonnia, Ulthuan, vast Southlands, Cathay, Skaven underground, Chaos Wastes, etc. - it's a giant canvas on which one can paint many stories without disturbing anything else. And the timeline itself is very long, with many empty spaces - that's also possibilties. And if one wants to go bigger with your story, what's the problem? The background is just the background - it provides context, but it isn't the Bible. If someone's great idea needs a Vampire on the Imperial or Bretonnian throne, then why should the background hinder their creativity? It should be about your dudes, your army, your story. One guy modelled Skaven serving in an imperial army - that doesn't make any sense from any point of view, but the effect itself was awesome - with all the rats in flashy clothes - and that's not bad, in my opinion ;)

    But still, I understand that I'm talking about disturbing the fluff and I know some people could have some problems with it. That's why this new fluff would work better in explaining whatever conflicts and creations players would invent and I'm supporting it :) I only hope I can have a down-to-earth, oldschool realm there for my dudes ;)
     
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  16. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    I mean it's possible to travel from Morrsend to NuLahmia, but that's why I kind of wish there was a map because it's only "possible". In Sands of Blood, we're given the impression that a group of Pilgrims marched from Morrsend to the Bastion of Final Rest. And I say "impression" because we're not told anything of their journey before Manfredd and the Stormcasts met up with them other than they came from Morrsend. So, it's "possible".

    That said, unless the Realmgates were like the Gates of Stygzz(which were hidden by the fact they changed locations every nine months), I believe it is only recently with Balance of Power that the Realmgates were freed from the clutches of Chaos and free travel between the realms was guaranteed.

    Could be entirely wrong though. I only have access to the Rulebook, Flesh-eaters Courts, and the Search for Nagash so I don't know too much about the background and I'm working off of hearsay for the most part.
     
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  17. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    Realmgates are used mostly for traveling between the realms (that's why they are called so). Of course, there can be gates to shortcut the traveling across the one vast realm, and it makes sense because every land save Azyr is roamed by chaos armies.
    Point taken ;)
    You can do it without problems, and there're mentions of quite usual lands like frozen kingdom of the King of Dark Despair.
    Realmgates grant access to the other realms, so yeah, mostly on foot.
    Yes, they must be cleansed before proceeding anyway.
    Then read also "Godbeasts" and "Quest for Ghal Maraz" as well.
     
  18. Malisteen

    Malisteen Vampire Count True Blood

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    More like 40k without the galaxy map. You get an idea of planets here and there, maybe vague impressions of sectors, but really no idea how anything actually relates to anything else. Also, its 40k if every planet were an unlivable deathworld, abstract daemonworls, or bombed out warzone, with no idea or structure for how anyone actually lives anywhere, or honestly even whether anyone even does, really.
     
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  19. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    So wait, what type of gate are the gates to Stygzz? Because Stygzz was like a sub-realm, I guess, that was only accessible through those nine gates. It wasn't a shortcut that made traveling from one end Shyish a hop, skip, and a jump away from the other, it was entirely separate.

    Which suggests there is the possibility of other such locales and gates in the other realms.

    And if there are gates that act as a shortcut across the realms, then again it is possible to have to use such a gate just to leave Morrsend, or to reach NuLahmia, etc etc etc.

    So at least a general map could help out a lot lol.
     
  20. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    The gates to Stigyx, apparently, lead to the Underworlds of Shyish, and these underworlds are present currently only in Shyish, which is quite logical. In other cases there are only gates leading to different parts of the realm like those leading to Green Great Torc above the Scabrous Sprawl in Ghyran.
     
  21. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    Maybe, but it's not possible and is pointless in general.
     
  22. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    Eh, maybe. If it's just going to be a lot of "here be monsters" anyway, make it like a Farcry map. Put the "official" places in locations relative to each other and then just leave the rest of the map literally vlank with a note to assume borders at own peril.
     
  23. Menkeroth

    Menkeroth A Knight of Blood

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    With such size and some locations here and there all attempts to make a whole map are pointless. And there is no real need, since all worlds are quite obviously imagined. The new Silver Tower box shows the pieces of the realms also quite well.
     
  24. Irisado

    Irisado Ancient Vampire Lord Staff Member True Blood

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    I think that it's harder to nail down a good narrative for an army or a battle if there's little to go on. It just results in vague concepts and ideas which feel very unsatisfying in my opinion, and unless they make the background and the world for Age of Sigmar a bit more concrete I see few opportunities to develop satisfying narrative material.

    In addition, I have to agree with Borgnine about the amount of freedom that there still was for developing ideas in the Old World. The map was massive and many lands had little published material associated with them. The scope for creativity was, therefore, sufficiently broad.
     
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  25. Kol Saresk

    Kol Saresk Zombie

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    Yeah, it's one thing to say "Here is Tilea" in relation to Brettonnia, the Empire, etc and then leave Tilea basically blank as it let's people do basically whatever in Tilea.

    And then with references here and there of how Tilean characters appear to the rest of the world, you get a pretty decent idea of what to expect in Tilea.

    We have little to none of that in Age of Sigmar.

    It's like, when did Vampires show up in Shyish? Were they always there, or did the vampire Mortarchs recreate them? How did the Mortarchs get to the New Realms? Were they like Morathi, just wandering through Shyish until Nagash rounded them all up, or did he have to recreate them? I assume since Neferata created NuLahmia in the image of old Lahmia, she has her memories of the Old World, do the others? After all, Manfredd refered to himself as the Count of the Howling Wood in Prisoner of the Black Sun. And so on.

    And these are just extremely basic questions. Questions that can be answered without having to corner the background.

    Like the map. It can remain mostly blank. And just point out where territories on the same plane are in relation to each other and such.
     

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