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HereticLosMorte

Skeleton
Jul 15, 2008
56
Ontario
i have to say, i was quite disappointed with the fact that the fell bats, bat swarms, spirit hosts and black knights weren't updated.
so, in the meantime, i don't take bat swarms, my fell bats are OOP undead carrion (not tomb kings, the older ones with the lil robed midgets riding), my black knights are bretonnian knights with the heads, shields, and lance arms replaced with the undead equivalent. as for spirit hosts, i will GS some, or just paint some random models to look the part of ghosts.

i was hoping for some new wraiths and banshees, even though the old wraiths are ok, never was a fan of the banshees. ah well.

i personally like the new vampire models, especially the winged vampire. he looks like a battle hardened, supernatural, no mercy, no remorse kinda brute. i think it fits the battlefield more than a dracula-esque vampire running around with oiled back james dean hair, yelling in a transylvanian accent "i'm going to suck your blooood".

i guess it's all personal preference though.

to start with, i hated the new dire wolves and ghouls. i needed more wolves so i bit the bullet, but for ghouls, i used a spare box and half of kroot and converted them to have bones, sticks, rocks (no tech), to look more like ghouls than 40k... eventually i got ghouls only cuz they came in the army box, so i put them together and got a good look at them, and now think they are quite great! i just didn't give any of them the "retarded" heads
 

monkeyboy1989

Zombie
Aug 7, 2008
14
Okay I have nothing new to add to the discussion that has not been said before except this...

having the ghouls not skirmish is actually quite sensible and here's why.

It is obvious when fighting it is easier to work efficiently as a square

"Ah but the ghouls aren't clever enough to figure that out are they"

Does it not say in the book that ghouls gather to the vamps and are broken to their will? I'm pretty sure it does say something like that, if that is indeed the case it is not illogical to assume the vamp has some kind of control over how they fight, the vamp would probably want them to fight as blocks.

In any other army book a non-skirmishing troop is 2-3 points cheaper than its skirmishing counterpart, this not only correlates to their usefulness but also to the fact that these troops have to train extensively to skirmish and be a efficient fighting force, even broken to the vampires will it is unlikely that such a gormless moron as a ghoul would be able to accomplish such a task.

<edit>
N1ak sorry to repeat your point, by the time I made it to page 8 I was bored of people whining about the new book and didn't read page 8 at all, thus I missed your post.
 

rocdocta

Ghoul
Aug 22, 2007
166
i just wish there was a decent 4+ save that didnt make you stupid. what the hell is that stupid staff that manfred is carrying. rubbish model. i like some of the other rules, miss the bloodlines but oh well.

i would rather not have to pay for the privelege of adding more models to a unit. zombies are now too dangerous to have in the asme combat as a lord. only a tar pit. nothing more. beforehand they could at least survive a bit. but ws and str2?! bat swarms are more dangerous!
 
Jul 30, 2008
16
It also makes me very sad how GW induces artificial amnesia in their new vampire fluff and hence destroys the collective vision of the hobby... at least to some of us anyway.

For instance: in the last version of the VC book, the blood kiss was described as it is - passing the vampire's own tainted blood to his new chosen victim. But now, the blood kiss is some process who nobody knows anything specific about, all they are vaguely sure on is that it involves exchange of blood in some fashion....???
Also, i really liked the earlier fluff on the start of the Strigoi vampires, how they became like they were and how the von Carsteins hunted them etc... Now all that is left from them is the Varghulf and a few lines of text about a vampire who lost his restraints and decided to be a freak. :P

I know I'm overdoing stuff, but this reminds me a bit of the process when the mayans and egyptians already knew that the earth was round, but then the church came and it was suddenly flat again for hundreds of years to come... My point is: if it ain't broken, there's no need to fix it, except for one's own gains. (BTW: I didn't wanna offend anyone with the above comparison, it just came to my mind)

Bye, T.
 

Bug16

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 30, 2007
1,166
Kaptain Von said:
The Necromancer is such a strong archetype that it'll probably have a list in its own right. What I'm hoping for, personally, is more special-character-based lists like the Army of the Lichemaster - something that's very much centred on the character of the Liche or Necromancer at the army's heart.

Same here. I miss the ability to be able to run a very strong Necromancer driven force.
 

Raziel

Crypt Horror
Jan 14, 2008
550
My bed
I agree whole-heartedly with Tomas VonC's post- the bit about the stigoi especially, it was the biggest dissapointent when I first got the book-I spent half an hour looing for more Strigoi stuff and got(cliffnotes version)-Mourkhain got estroyed by Orcs, years ater a vampire builds a city calld Strigos over it. Orcs kill the city again. Oh, Vorag's not a strigoi anymore either. The end.
 

Count Jex

Skeleton
Dec 12, 2007
68
Hi Khamontep.

Wow, this is like totally wierd. :|I've just written and introductory post say practically the same thing, if a little less.

The lastics are just as expensive, now, as the metals. Similarly, remember when a unit of 20 skeltetons (that actually looked good) could be bought for £15? [Apparently, they were £10 originally, but this was before my time.] So thats 75p per miniature.

Now lets do some maths,
The re-released skeletons are priced at £12 a box (of 10-half as bloody much as you got originally!) But wait, say, you want a full unit. Ok, that'll be £24 for it then. 83p per miniature!

'Not much', you think? Afterall it's just an increase of 8p more and "there is a war on" (I was given that excuse by a GW employee).

Now consider, the decrease (correction) in scale that the miniatures display. Fine, they are to scale (a skull can actually fit into a human head now) but, they require LESS material.

An INCREASE in price yet a DECREASE in actual plastic per minature. -Thats GW thinking for you.

It's a good thing that I buy most of my rules and minatures second hand. 6th edition Vamire Counts rulebook, purchased for £3 and a unit of old skeleons (the best) for £10 BRAND NEW and unopened. Zombies, new and unopened again, for £10 (I think- it was a while ago) and with a free movent tray inside. I was well chuffed with that.

I wouldn't get that from GW, pretty soon, it'll be £20 for a box of zombies and I already have to by movement trays seperate. Thanks GW.
 

Khamontep

Skeleton
Jan 5, 2008
94
Ah, I haven't visited for two months and this was the perfect thread to come back to! It's a relief to see that some people agree (partially at least ;)). When I read it through again I realized that I still agree to all of it. Haven't really painted or battled for a long time either.

Jexx, I agree! I remember when you could get 10 skeletons for 75 sek, that's £5,35, eg about 54p per skeleton. That was about ten years back. I was neither grown up nor Undead player at the time (wasn't called VC back then was it), so I don't really remember. Not it's 10 for what, £12? That's more than twice the cost.

Anyone having some info on the current state of GW's monetary crisis? Or maybe there never was one at all? Maybe they're just thirsting for money. I was hoping they would get some cash by the release of Warhammer Online (if it doesn't turn out to be a disappointment). Such advertisment should increase the hobby sales I think. That would be a good time to lower the prices.

Kham out
 

The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Dec 23, 2007
2,586
Eire
You have to remember, we are just cash cows to GW at the end of the day. Kids who spend their parents money on the latest GW crap (although, they do make very nice models too, no denying that) just add fuel to the fire that is the GW enterprise. As a company, their goal is to make money. Last year they made a loss, but this year, they're back in profit. So, as long as they make money, we'll still have warhammer. Heheh, not the best way to have a good gaming system, balanced on the profit lines of a games company that can't get itself very good models or balance their own rules. You read daemons of chaos and tell m its not un balanced ;) I myself like the new vamps enough to paint them, but on closer inspection, they could be a lot better. Still dont have the winged one, but I have such little intrest in that one model.

Compare us to Space Marines and we're not even a blip on the radar. And look at the price of Grave Guard now, they're actually down then before! Yes, down! GW are a strange company. Very strange.

If the Online Warhammer craze actually takes to the sky, its set to crush WoW. Not being a player of either games, I could actually not care less what happens either way, I just want cheaper skellys ^^
 

Khamontep

Skeleton
Jan 5, 2008
94
Heh, cash cows. :mrgreen: Made me smile. Yeah, it makes sence that their sole purpose is to make money, but they seem more "at it" than most other modelling companies out there. It's like they need some competition to make these wicked prices go away. I wonder how many who would play WHFB if the prices were, say, cut in half. I guess the double at least, which would mean the same profit, if not more.

Also, I must ask, even if it's not really on topic, did they really fire Fat Bloke, the guy who kept White Dwarf an entertaining read, nowadays only existing for advertising every new miniature and showing off prices on every single page? I know he went a long time ago, but then again, I've been away from playing for a long time (and from reading WD!).

Kham out[/b]
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Aug 19, 2007
3,472
It may seem that way since they are much bigger in comparisment and also of course since we're directly affected by their decisions. They also have been in a tight spot so not going down the drain probably was something they wanted to avoid... They're back into profit now as it seems so who knows what will happend. WAR is something I've noticed people are quite excited about as well. Lets hope that might help some. Not likely to play myself though.

As for the VC minis. I rather like them, the characters could have been done differently though. Ruleswise, could be better but it always can and I am happy with what we've got. Change is good in my opinion.

No GW didnt fire fat bloke. He, apparently got a better paid job within GW. "The talk" could be wrong but I am fairly certain he is still within the company.
 

Bug16

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 30, 2007
1,166
jexx said:
The lastics are just as expensive, now, as the metals. Similarly, remember when a unit of 20 skeltetons (that actually looked good) could be bought for £15?

I remember when 24 plastic GW skeletons cost £4. I win! :grin:

As for which sculpts look the best, well that's a personal choice. If you want lots of the previous sculpts them cheaply ebay is your friend.

jexx said:
An INCREASE in price yet a DECREASE in actual plastic per minature. -Thats GW thinking for you.

This is why I can buy FIVE superb looking Cold One Knights for £12. GW are slowely learning value = sales.
 

Bug16

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 30, 2007
1,166
danceman said:
No GW didnt fire fat bloke. He, apparently got a better paid job within GW. "The talk" could be wrong but I am fairly certain he is still within the company.

He's not working for GW although his "official" reason for leaving hasn't been made public (he confirmed he'd left GW over at www.warhammer.org.uk). He's now running his own company called Warlord Games that are creating some mighty fine plastic, metal and resin historical ranges.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Aug 19, 2007
3,472
Bug16 said:
danceman said:
No GW didnt fire fat bloke. He, apparently got a better paid job within GW. "The talk" could be wrong but I am fairly certain he is still within the company.

He's not working for GW although his "official" reason for leaving hasn't been made public (he confirmed he'd left GW over at www.warhammer.org.uk). He's now running his own company called Warlord Games that are creating some mighty fine plastic, metal and resin historical ranges.

Ah, I see. I stand corrected then.
 

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jul 12, 2007
2,341
The Netherlands
To be honest, I agree with Kham's basic rants fully. I can see a point in almost all of his arguments. I mean, Crypt Ghouls just sounds silly!

If we look at GW, in my opinion they lack competition. This means they're the mass producer for most people out there. But more and more people search for others model manufacturers... such as Rackham. The only problem is, the Warhammer world can never be reproduced by another factory. So we're forced to convert Warhammer bits with other factory stuff, and actually spend more money.

To be honest GW can do anything it likes... Or so it seems.

jexx said:
The lastics are just as expensive, now, as the metals. Similarly, remember when a unit of 20 skeltetons (that actually looked good) could be bought for £15?

Yes I think they were even cheaper before that. I can remember a box of Skellies was 20 Euro, that would be under 15 pounds if I recall correctly.
 
Sep 4, 2007
100
Melbourne
on a side note about skirmishing ghouls...

back in 3rd and 4th ed (when there was just the Undead, and no VC or TK) ghouls were a ranked unit...

then 5th ed came along and they made them skirmishers, which stuck around in 6th ed...so really they have actually gone back to the roots with the ghouls...

i do agree though! i like skirmishing ghould MUCH more...

on a side note, i'd like the screaming skull catapult to FINALLY come home...it shouldn't be in just TK, after all undead had one before them!
 

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jul 12, 2007
2,341
The Netherlands
I think the basic reason for changing Ghouls was to obviously have a horde army approach. While they were costly, units of 5 Ghouls were very handy. Nearly every list had a unit or two of them. They also were pretty strong, thus versatile. Units of 8 Ghouls weren't uncommon, neither were 12.
 

gorenut

Zombie
Sep 24, 2008
12
Me personally.. I just don't like what they did with Vampires in general. It's like they're so common now. Each army is like "VAMPIREFEST 2008!"

I liked it better when I was able to field my powerful Vampire lord... simply accompanied by his trusty Wight Lord.. after that a lowly Necro to help some raising. There were no more Vampires in my army other than the occasional Black Coach. Now you see armies with 4 Vampire characters, the Varghulf (which I don't mind too much, I actually like him), and then Blood Knights as well. So its not so hard to see something like 10 vampires on the battlefield at once. All of a sudden, they're spawning like crazy. I liked it better when they were rarer and more powerful (individually, atleast for a Blood Dragon type character).
 

Vall

Skeleton
Sep 22, 2008
61
Connecticut
I'd just like to chime in that this here is the best Vampire Model GW ever produced. You can get it online, but can't find it in stores anymore.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060207150&orignav=301116
 

The Dark Sheep

Master Vampire
True Blood
Feb 8, 2008
4,529
Vall said:
I'd just like to chime in that this here is the best Vampire Model GW ever produced. You can get it online, but can't find it in stores anymore.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060207150&orignav=301116

Amen.
 

zwaggs33

Zombie
Oct 1, 2008
5
Actually before the new book and models I never would have considered playing the VC. Since they have come out and my wish to re enter the hobby I have chosen them as my new army. I love the models and the vampiric powers. I think the new skeleton models are the best models I have ever seen. But thats just my 2 cents and 2 cents cant really buy you anything.
 

Vall

Skeleton
Sep 22, 2008
61
Connecticut
I do agree that the core, special, and rare units are highly improved, but the characters aren't that spectacular.
 

Khamontep

Skeleton
Jan 5, 2008
94
Core is cool, exept för Ghouls (they still don't look good ranked... Believe me I tried to make em look good, even after a few drinks they didn't.. So screw that)

Special isn't cool! Black Knights and Fell Bats are still there, and those are the worst GW models today that are still "up to date". Some of the oldest ones too, for sure. They look 4th edish.

And Rare.. Yeah, that's cool. Even though new Banshees would be optimal, but I knew GW wouldn't do anything about em. At least they look half good.
 

Vall

Skeleton
Sep 22, 2008
61
Connecticut
Personally I like the new fellbats. And don't forget about the grave guard, who are simply spectacular.

Black Knights do leave alot to be desired though.
 

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