1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Our Undead pals over at tomb-kings.net have started a casual painting/modelling competition akin to our own "Turning the World to Darkness" challenges. If they are not enough to slake your thirst, you can find out more about Khemri's newest creation here: http://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/painting-challenge-on-khemri-forum.30854/#post-445673
  3. Big changes are coming to Age of Sigmar! Narrative battles, points and a Book! What does this mean for the Vampiric hordes?!
  4. The 9th Age, the fan made rules alternative, has had it's rules updated to version 1.3! What changes could this bring for our fellow vampires?

(T9A) - Best Tactics and Units

Discussion in 'The Teachings of Abhorash' started by Vojteh_the_brute, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Vojteh_the_brute

    Vojteh_the_brute Zombie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Hi to everyone,
    I am newbie about writing posts on this forum but my friends and I played at the 7th edition for some years and then, I always red on Carpe Noctem about tactics and army list to get advice and inspiration.
    Now we decided to skip to T9A, as we think that the 7th is too unbalanced on DoC, DE and strong magic armies. I hope we will find something better.

    After this boring introduction I get the point: new rules doesn't look good for ridden monster like before, neither we can get that smart block made by GG and pimped by Corpse Carts and helm of commandment.
    Big units seem to take over and magic is not effective like it was.

    Generally speaking, which are best tactics in your opinion for this game?

    Which are VC best tactics and units?

    I would like to get some input on which I can work. Thanks for your advice.
     
  2. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    Conga lines, wraith movement tricks, deathstars, and varakolaks.

    There is probably more info on the T9A forum than this one though.
     
  3. Mad 'At

    Mad 'At Dumb enough to work Staff Member True Blood

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,338
    @Vojteh_the_brute
    Ridden monsters are not really the strength of VC no, but it is not entirely worthless. The Monstrous Revenant is not that impressive, but could possibly be useful for a Courtier. Putting the general on it would be too much of a risk I think. Zombie Dragons can be great though, with a Lucky Shield and probably Charm of Cursed Iron to protect it from at least some ranged attacks. We have an advantage over most armies when it comes to monsters and that is that we can heal them. It is not super effective healing but every wound counts. Another option is the Court of the Damned. Not really a monster but achieves much the same effect. If taken with lamia and the Eternal Ring it becomes very tanky.

    A Barrow Guard star can still be made very tough. Using a Lamia Count you can give them WS5, Cadaver Wagons give them Lightning Reflexes (granting +1 To Hit) and casting Spectral Blades on them makes them a nightmare. I almost always use a block of 34-36 of them with shields and hand weapon. They are not the most powerful unit in the game but can hold their own against a lot of things.

    Another gem we have is the Blade of Red Thirst. I used in on a Von Karnstein Courtier at a tournament this weekend, and he brought back a whole lot of Barrow Knights throughout the fives games. Other builds allows you to make even more powerful Cav buses, but it could also be used on Barrow Guard quite successfully. Combine it with Crimson Rage on a Brotherhood of the Dragon vampire and you can obliterate entire units while resurrecting your own.

    With Nosferatu you can build some cool raise spam lists. I've run such a couple of times and while they are not the most effective at scoring huge wins, they are quite dependable. Magic costs a lot but Nosferatu can actually make it quite reliable with Blood Magic, Book of Arcane Power and Staff of Gerhard the Black. I almost always get at least two spells off in every magic phase. Similar results can probably be achieved using multiple necromancers and an Altar of Undeath with Unholy Tome, but I've never tried that myself.

    Strigoi lets you build infantry based lists with a lot of power. The Count can take Bestial Bulk and go with a unit of Ghasts while the Courtiers go with the Ghouls. Supported by an Altar of Undeath of two for better regeneration it could be quite strong. Another thing you could do is a Vanguard spam lists, that is up in the face of the foe from turn one. Ghould can be upgraded with Vanguard and Varkolaks have it from the start, could be interesting.
     
  4. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    I would tend to agree with most of what Mad 'At said but I do differ on some things:

    Nosferatu isn't point efficient. Taking four necromancers with the Altar does a similar thing for many less points. The only (type of) Nosferatu build I would consider is a courtier BSB, with the extra range power, and the staff with three necromancers and the altar. The count simply costs far too many points. Blood magic is nice but the only way to get it is taking an overpriced model.

    Strigoi is decent currently but I don't think ghouls are the way to go. The no musician thing really hurt me in the one game I played with them and it has really hurt other VC players in my area when they have taken ghouls. With strigoi taking a lot of cheap vampires is probably the way to go. If you snag the altar they all have a decent save, 4 wounds, and can dish out S5/6 (depending on the weapon) attacks.

    Many armies that play monsters also use druidism so I don't know how much of an advantage we have. Regardless ridden monsters count against our two most important categories (swift death and characters). I don't think a vamp lord on a zombie dragon is a bad unit but in a standard size game I'll usually come somewhat close to maxing characters and swift death so taking 1000+ point model that counts towards both catagories (albeit less so for swift death) really hurts.

    On second thought I guess a more accurate statement would be I agree with about half of what Mad 'At said :rolleyes:
     
  5. Mad 'At

    Mad 'At Dumb enough to work Staff Member True Blood

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,338
    I used Nosferatu with decent success back in v1.2, when you still had to pay for the upgrade. I ran a Count with Cosmology and a Courtier with Evocation, both with Arcane Knowledge. I certainly didn't win the tournament but I ended up right around where I always end up, at about 10 BP average per game. I had both big wins and big losses.

    Good point about the Ghouls. Not having a musician is really annoying. They are cheaper now than in 1.2 though so I think the might be useful. I at least intend to try them out again.

    Druidism does heal, that is true, but not all have access to it. Still, thanks to use having the heal as a Trait spell and also having the Gates of the Netherworld I'd say its about equal. We can also have a fighty character one a monster and still be able to raise wounds with it, which few others (if any) can.
     
  6. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    The issue with Noseferatu is the count is pointless. You can do the same thing taking courtiers and Necromancers for a fraction of the cost:

    Say I want a level 3 wizard apprentice (probably to use with the altar). I can take a 280pt Nosferatu courtier or a 260pt necromancer. However, the courtier has obvious advantages. I can make him a BSB, he has a higher leadership if I want to make him my general, and can take a cool blood power. To me this seems around balanced. To take a Nosferatu Count with the same set up (disregarding the fact you have to give him wizard master which is a bit pointless in altar setups) it would cost me 400pts. To get slightly better combat stats than the courtier that I really never want to use and one better leadership. I even lose the ability to take him as a BSB. Oh, but wait, I now can take a massively overpriced blood power for 150pts. I usually used manfred in 8th edition because I enjoy playing magic focused VC armies, but I simply can't justify the ridiculous cost of this guy.
     
  7. Leithel

    Leithel Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Messages:
    286
    I have learned, perhaps the hard way, that all those fun buffing abilities are a waste of point when used on core (like zombies and skeletons) with the pure exception being ghouls and strigoi buffs.

    VC is really fun to list build with. Thematic lists, some strong units (like Vorkalaks) and some more "thematic" units that aren't great (like the screaming horror). I take Nosferatu against new players to show them how to win and Strigoi / Lamia against stronger opponents to show them how to lose :).

    My three favorite lists are:

    1. Strigoi with all the trimmings.
    2. Lamia with plenty of chaff and a few crazy strong combat units, usually barrow guard with WS 5 and +1 to hit from the banner in a unit of 40 or so.
    3. Von Karstein horde with two vorkolaks and a storm caller on a winged nightmare. Not much can take on a triple charge from those three.
     
  8. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    I truly believe that an effective nosferatu list can be built. It would just have zero counts in it.
     
  9. Leithel

    Leithel Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Messages:
    286
    You might say that that doesn't COUNT.
     
  10. Mad 'At

    Mad 'At Dumb enough to work Staff Member True Blood

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,338
    @Quinten: True, with an Altar of Undeath with Dark Tome the Count becomes rather wasted. There are downsides to the Dark Tome though, which is why I never use it. If you take it you can't really ever use more than 2 dice on your general, which is a shame. You could take a necromancer to be your general (if your only Courtier is the BSB), but it still seems like a waste to me. I prefer to go without the Altar and take a Count with Book of Arcane Power. That gives you 5 spell (6 if Evocation) with a +3 modifier to cast and it also gives you a much stronger defence against enemy magic.

    @Leithel That Von Karnstein list you mentioned, you ever considered taking two Shrieking Horrors instead of the Varkolaks? Would really let you make use of that sweet 24" range march bubble, and still create a very powerful combo charge against a lot of targets.
     
  11. Leithel

    Leithel Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Messages:
    286
    Hah yeah @Mad 'At I have. Doesn't fit into 4000 points, but as most people are playing 4500 now it does. Massive chunk of your army sunk into that little gamble though that's for sure.
     
  12. Mad 'At

    Mad 'At Dumb enough to work Staff Member True Blood

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,338
    Mobile units are hardly ever a gamble. If you face too much shooting you can always hide until you infantry has marched up and hopefully clogged the shooting down a bit. But yeah, it is a lot of points for sure.
     
  13. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    @Mad 'At the count may have +3 to cast and no altar downside but he is 570pts (without blood powers and with 3 learned spells) compared to a courtier who only costs 280pts (without blood powers and 3 learned spells). This is about double the cost. You could take two courtiers for around how much you spent on the count. I'm not arguing that the count couldn't be effective but unless he is buffed majorly he should be just over half the points that he is now (say 300pts instead of 570pts for this particular setup. How obscenely overpriced this guy is, is not even funny).
     

Share This Page