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The Lost Bloodlines of the Vampire Counts.

Discussion in 'Liber Mortis' started by Danceman, May 22, 2008.

  1. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    There are little or no mention of these 2 lost bloodlines in the book. Since it isnt all that easy to get a quick reference to this kind of information I think it will be a good thing to sticky this as well:

    THE JADE-BLOODED :
    To invite mortals to the battlefield is to cast
    pearls before swine. But what else can we do
    but hope to enlighten the lesser creatures of this
    world?

    -- Master Thousand-Hands-Cutting

    * Carstein and Lahmia-esque bloodline, though it is not as clear cut. The bloodline is based in Cathay.


    MAHTMASI: THE CARRION CHILDREN
    I am far older than your pathetic empire, and I
    will remain when it is nothing but dust. And
    then, as now my children will feed

    - overheard by a servant during the night assassination of Caliph Al-Haramba

    * Blood Dragon meet Strigoi. Assassin type vampires like Strigoi feeds on mostly the blood of Carrion, hence their name; Carrion kings. The bloodline is based in Araby.

    Unofficial summary Link here
     
  2. Ghouly

    Ghouly Liche True Blood

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    Don't forget Harkon
     
  3. The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy

    The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Harkon has the same name as a Blood Dragon - Walach Harkon, the daddy of the blood knights, so its safe enough to assume that he is a Blood Dragon himself
     
  4. Simon von Carstein

    Simon von Carstein The Poetic Fiend True Blood TVC II GM

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    Actually Luther Harkon is generally regarded to be one of Vashanesh's gets.
     
  5. The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy

    The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Oops, well thats new to me. I should know this, after all, I do zombie pirates :tongue:
     
  6. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    Actually Luthor Harkon belong to the Von Carstein bloodline, and he isnt really lost. Just roaming around the now called "vampire coast" swelling his ranks with sailors and pirates who happend to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. He is however mad as a dog but still a Von Carstein :tongue:
     
  7. Voltaire

    Voltaire Master Necromancer True Blood

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    That piece was originally written as a theoretical piece showing what could be achieved by use of the new WFRP book - Nights Dark Masters. To my knowledge there is nothing Canon about it though people consider it as such because it makes a lot of sense.

    Can someone state where it says Harkon was a Von Carstein though? I was under the impression he was a Blood Dragon too.
     
  8. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    Harkon special rules here, though it seems it is not the full rules from the zombie pirate list but clearly he is a von carstein ;

    http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/lizardmen/gaming/campaign/characters/luthor.htm
     
  9. Voltaire

    Voltaire Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Excellent work Danceman.

    Do you think the represented works are how the missing bloodlines would be though?
     
  10. The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy

    The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy Master Necromancer True Blood

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    Didn't one master vampire go into the chaos wastes?
    Or was that something I thought up? (Wouldn't have been the first time)
     
  11. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    His Dark Fluffyness ; I think you are right, but I believe this bloodline isnt lost as much at is dead dead dead. Not even a powerful vampire would survive that place, chaos corrupts all it touches as they say. Though it be interesting of something had anything more canon on this as I am only guessing now.

    Voltaire ; Not quite sure what you mean here. Do you mean a visual representation, or more examples(if there are any) of list bloodlines or perhaps more information of the bloodlines above?

    I would recommend you save the PDF as soon as possible on your computer, never know when that one will disappear.
     
  12. Voltaire

    Voltaire Master Necromancer True Blood

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    A Vampires lack of Chaos signature means he would be able to survive that place quite easily. The question arises about how a Chaos creature would react being cut off from its primary source of power aka the magic of Chaos. Its an interesting idea and one which should be analysed in more detail.

    The Bloodlines mentioned in the PDF are not Canon though I do recommend saving the PDF for future reference.
     
  13. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    Not quite, vampires are not cut off entirely. Like with elves you are removed from the most immediate touch of chaos but chaos can and will corrupt any and all in due time. For example a vampire is not immune to the lore of nurgle/tzeentch or slaanesh. While it is VERY unlikely that a vampire would worship any of the chaos gods as it gives him very little in return, immortality through sucking blood or the tiny off-chance of reaching daemonhood. That being is what a vampire is severed from, he is basically outside of worship so to speak, he is however just as easily turned into a carrot as any being.

    That and the countless of daemons, beasts and other horrors in the chaos wastes. As the fluff goes, vampires are tough beings but standing against a horde of chaos in the form of greater daemons, Daemon princes, chaos lords and sorcerers they are suddenly not all that powerful anymore, especially since the daemons of chaos would be at the pinnacle of their power in this age(being constantly fueled by chaos energy).

    It is not canon and never will be, unless by some off chance it will appear in the next book and that wont happend in awhile :tongue:
     
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  14. Yudas

    Yudas Skeleton

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    Well given vampires are essentially soulless dead corpses retaining only the will to survive and their ambitions I would say there isnt a whole lot for chaos to corrupt.

    As far as I know though GW hasnt made it clear how resistant vampires are to the lure of the dark gods and the ensuing corruptions. I cant however recall that a single vampire has ever 'fallen' to chaos. The closest example to a vampire being corrupted by chaos would be in the new demons of chaos book where theres a story of a vampire allying with one of the chaos gods for his own benefits.

    Yudas.
     
  15. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    Aye, that was my point. While a vampire wouldnt turn to chaos as it would benefit him/her very little, the mutation and that form of corruption would will ravage even a vampire. I mean it affects inanimate objects such as houses and such, dead things are not beyond the mutating energies. Along with all the other dangers I listed above I dont think the vampire ending up in the chaos wastes are "alive" anymore. Though it would be intriguing to see what this vampire and it´s offspring would be like if they managed to stay alive.
     
  16. Voltaire

    Voltaire Master Necromancer True Blood

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    This is going off topic rapidly. I recommend a new thread about it which I am starting now...
     
  17. The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy

    The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy Master Necromancer True Blood

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    What would happen if a Vamp (not a master or anything higher up in the line of command) became a daemon, through daemonhood? I can see a blood dragon/Strigoi (mainly strigoi) being a disciple of Khorne with promises of power and strenght over their enemies. What would happen in that situation? Giving the vamp new "life" as a never dying daemon?

    As for chaos still being able to warp the dead, I think the only god able to do that would be Tzeentch, seeing as everything in his force is warped beond recognision.
    Nurgle can't do anything more to something already dead, his diseases are meant to kill, and you cannot kill that which isn't alive.
    Khorne wants to kill it, but a vamp being dead already means that he would't be a kill in the name of khorne, but seeing as he cannot be "Killed" as such, he would be a great servant of khorne.
    Slannesh makes things "pretty" (in a nut shell anyway). How will a strigoi become "pretty"? As for granting pleasure, I could understand that a strigoi would want the other bloodlines dead or even to experience of living as a Von Carstein (being publicly accepted and treated well by others), I could understand Lahmians with Slannesh, as well as necrarchs with Tzeentch. (who would choose Nurgle? Vamps are not afraid of death as such, they're already dead, although being "re-dead" might scare them into wanting to be immune to anything but death in combat, so not ailments. Nurgle would give complete protection from these, so a paranoid Blood Dragon might try here instead of Khorne)

    But the effect that it would have on them physically would be quite strange indeed, although I do think that necrarch spawns would look surprizingly better then the walking corpse look they have now :tongue: A few too many heads can read more books of knowledge at once. And the fact that they could probably breathe fire...
    Being a minion of khorne would make you look bestial and primative in comparason to the regular vamps (sprouting horns and other scary animal features) so mainly strigoi IMO
    Nurgle would make you look like a nercrarch, maybe a fairly recent vampire would look like a very old Necrarch, and be immune to disease seeing as he is also carrying so many diseases that they'd balance each other out. (Skeletons with Rickets :|)
    Slannesh would make a vampire even more vampisish IMO, drinking blood is good already, but when you feel things hundreds of times greater then before and you could drink the blood of daemons instead of humans (Do daemons have blood? Plague bearers do, and so do Blood Letters, as they were supposed to be awash with blood giving them their red colour a while back)

    And finally, if a vampire becomes a daemon, could they then give out a Daemonic Blood Kiss? Thus making his/her gets daemonic as well as vampiric? (And this is basically my fluff here, so it might be very off balance, but my vamp was a blood dragon who tasted Daemon Blood, which basically cured him of his thurst while making him semi daemonic)

    Rant over :tongue: Hope it still makes sense

    Edit - this post might need to be in the other new thread :tongue: Oops
     
  18. Kindred Bloodslear

    Kindred Bloodslear Ghoul

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    Seems I arrived too late. The Black Library has met the same fate as the Black Pyramid, albeit at the hands of a different enemy...

    Anyone have a local copy of these (literally) lost records they'd care to share? :)
    If in doubt, PM me. ;)
     
  19. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    Since the link no longer works, I believe this a suitble description of the two. Though obviously isnt detailed on the BL site anymore, no idea why it was removed.

    Also edited the first post for a better organised summary.
     
  20. Danceman

    Danceman The Devil in Pale Moonlight True Blood

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    Stumbled on this on a WHFB rpg forum.

    Unofficial summary Link here
     
  21. UndeadSi87

    UndeadSi87 Skeleton

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    as written in the liber Necris, by the hand of Mannfred Von Carstein last amongst the pure line of Vlad. Every living being in the WH world is tied to the ether, inexplicable tied to the realm of chaos even by a portion of their soul. However once a creature receievs the blood kiss this tie is severed, the soul is draw completely within the physical shell of the vampire where it will grow empty and void of emotion and care.

    The denizens of chaos abhore Vampires and those who practices necromancy as when they animate the dead they pull a portion of the sould back from chaos and they are powerless to prevent it. They are essentially stealing the dead from that realm. This roughly means that Chaos has no control or affect of vampire, in order to them to bestow a 'gift' on a servant they need to have a link, which in vampires does not exist.
    This is probably why Kemmler was able to bargain a deal with the gods since he was still technically alive the description in the liber Necris is when Vlad cast his awaking spell at the beginning of the 'vampire wars'

    This is only what I remember off the top of my head, but once i get home i'll post the exact wording of it.

    I think a vamprie would be able to fight of the mutations as they are supremely powerful beings and aslong as they have a ready supply of blood they can empower themselves. I think it would be much more likely they would have be killed or be fighting constantl;y if they enter the wastes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
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  22. Novium

    Novium Zombie

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    The whole "severing"-thing sure makes the whole "Nagash, enemy of chaos" thing work out in recent lore. They should have upplayed that a bit so Newhammers knew more about this juicy bit of backstory.

    Anyone care to outline the differances between the "Poisoned cup" and the Elixir of Life?
     
  23. Dragonet

    Dragonet Wight King

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    I couldn't blame anyone for being confused with Vampire lore, since in End Times they threw Walach Harkon under the bus by making him a champion of Khorne before being summarily despatched in close combat by a Von Carstein...
     
  24. Ol'timer

    Ol'timer Skeleton

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    yeah, ET kinda screwed a lot of storylines. All of the original lines came from the nobles of the sands of khemri all of them fled nagash and seretta to set up their own courts to mimic what they had before.
    There are vampire stories galore in the old books, but very little on the bloodlines. Most were like the original European vamps of today's history, and are what GW used for thier bloodlines. Cathay would be a great place for a blood line due to China and Japan of today having a vampire type in thier history. Russia has one also I believe, as does india. Even the new world has stories of dark travelers from the old world coming to live.
     

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