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Useless player needs guidance...

Discussion in 'The Teachings of Abhorash' started by Kriegschmidt, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Kriegschmidt

    Kriegschmidt Zombie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Morning all. Long-time lurker, this is my first thread (I think)...

    I've been playing VC's since the start of 8th Edition. They were the army that converted me from 40k, largely due to me growing up on Hammer horror films and Jason & the Argonauts (skeleton warriors from the ground!)...

    Enough of that. I've whittled down the list I like to play - it's based on fluff and trying to have a fairly balanced army - and have sold off most of my spare minis. But what I need is help with how to use it! Every game I play I feel like I don't really know what I'm doing, and that I spend most of the game playing reactively, and not in an effective way. So basically I'm after help - both basic Warhammer tactical advice (assume I'm a complete eejit) and specific ways to get the most out of this list.

    Normally I like to play 3000pts, but currently my usual sparring partner is slowly building up a Lizardmen army, so we're temporarily at 2000pts. Just to stress that I won't be changing my list; rather what I need is help on what to do with it. It's become apparent after many games that while I can make an exceptional omelette that ability does not stretch to playing Warhammer.

    I know the rules and the army book inside out, I understand the importance of the General's marching bubble... other than that assume I'm a n00b :)

    2000 list:

    Count Mannfred - Hellsteed

    Vampire Lord - Hellsteed
    (Heavy armour, shield, lance, 4+ ward, Black Periapt; Red Fury, Quickblood, Fear Incarnate)

    Cairn Wraith

    16 Crypt Ghouls (incl. Ghast)
    46 Skeleton Warriors
    (EDIT: incl. standard bearer with Screaming Banner)
    5 Dire Wolves
    5 Dire Wolves

    5 Hexwraiths
    5 Blood Knights

    Playing advice here please, many thanks in advance!

    K
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  2. Powl

    Powl Ghoul

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    143
    Hi Kriegschmidt, and welcome to the forum!

    I don't know a lot about Lizardmen, I only faced them a few times (playing Skaven). But here's what I would do:

    In general, avoid combats of fighty units (Blood Knights, Vamp Lord, Wraiths) together with skeletons / ghouls, unless the odds are really in your favour. If you lose a lot of skeletons, you'll loose the good units to crumble because of bad combat resolution.

    Ethereals: use them to lock monsters in combat (only if they don't have magical attacks). Skinks are also a good target, they don't have a rank bonus because they're skirmishers, plus they can't shoot you when in combat. Don't get in combat with big infantry blocks, you won't do enough damage to win combat (ranks & banner = +4 CR) and they will crumble. Use the hexwraiths as spectral hunters instead (use Vanhels to do it twice!).

    Keep Mannfred out of combat. He only has a 4+ armour save, so I think he will go down quick against a combat unit (or mass shooting, so stay clear or get in cover). He is your main caster, and with Loremaster of Vampires & Death he can buff your troops by giving them rerolls, soulblight the enemy and as you're using fearbomb (which is hard against Lizardmen) use Doom & Darkness. Or just go for Purple Sun, the sauruses have very poor initiative. Plus a miscast might result in Mannfred exploding, which is always a nice thing :)

    Deploy the skeletons and ghouls 5 wide, you'll limit the amount of enemy models that are in base contact and which can hit you. They will hurt you more then vice versa, so exploit your ranks (and deny them steadfast).

    In case you're facing skinks, try to deploy your units in such a way that there's no 12" space away from your units, so he can't deploy them in your rear/flank (scouts). You can also corner up and face every direction so you can immediately charge when he deploys them near.

    Use the wolves as redirectors, or try to give your expensive units hard cover against skink shooting. Ethereals will also work for this.

    Your Vamp Lord and Bloodknights will bring the pain, but remember the knights only have 1 wound and T4 so they're vulnerable, even with 2+ armour they will eventually go down if there are enough attacks hitting them back. They have to overrun because of frenzy, so beware not to receive a flank charge in the enemies turn (that juicy charge you've made may be a trap). Keep them close to your general, so you can use Ld10 for frenzy checks.
    The Lord may engage some bigger stuff on his own, with 5 S7 attacks on the charge with rerolls & red fury, he will probably destroy anything he touches, plus with a 3+ armour, 4+ ward, he's quite well protected. Take care not to get bogged down in combat, with S5 he's a lot less scary.

    Hope this helps (and makes sense, I haven't played for quite a while ;) )
    Good luck & enjoy!
     
    Thanos Balorkin likes this.
  3. Kriegschmidt

    Kriegschmidt Zombie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Brilliant, thanks! Lots of great advice there, and I'll digest it before taking on the Scaly Nuisances (TM) again :)

    Quick question straight away then: should the Blood Knights be staying pretty close to 'the pack' then? I'm always tempted to have them further out on a flank or something because of them being able to march (and hit hard), but that never seems to work... (my strategy/tactics are rubbish...)

    Thanks again, and for the welcome!

    P.S. Is this a rubbish list..? I do have a load of black knights for example (8), about 40 zombies, a Varghulf... (but I prefer to take cavalry, because... cavalry!!1!1) And I was wondering whether Mannfred would be better off on foot... Didn't mention this earlier because I didn't want this to be a list-building thread.
    Cheers, K
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  4. Powl

    Powl Ghoul

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    143
    Bloodknights can threaten a flank, but your opponent can sacrifice a cheap unit and make you overrun away from everything. It then takes a while before you get back in the fight (Banner of Swiftness may help). Out on their own they're Ld7 so not very unlikely they'll fail the frenzy test. Just try to keep them close next time, and see if they are more successfull that way. Or keep them back and aside and make your opponent worry about receiving a flank charge when he advance.

    If you put Manny on foot, put him in a unit, he's protected from shooting but he looses mobility (and armour save goes to 5+). In combat, attacks will be allocated to him and he'll go down quick. And as he's your general, your march bubble will be less mobile as well, so it's more difficult to handle the hexwraiths. You may use the Lord, Knights & hexwraiths (wolves running along) as mobile attack team with Manny on their tail for Ld & marching bubble and magic support, with skeletons & ghouls pressing forward and maybe locking things in combat.
    Not a strong tactician here myself :) but just some thoughts.

    A rubbish list... I wouldn't know :) it also depends on how you use it ;) I'm always struggling in list making, no matter how many points to spend! . But from defeat you'll learn the do's and don't's (been there plenty of times, ouch!).
    Undead work better in large groups, so 16 Ghouls are a bit low on numbers.
    You can try and use the Black Knights instead of Bloodknights as well. They're just as resilient but much cheaper and heal wounds better (1+wizard level compared to 1 for Bloodknights), they don't have the offensive power of Bloodknights but the Lord does, you can put him in the unit. Varghulfs are tough as well, he can team up with the Lord as both will probably not give away a lot of combat resolution.
    So a lot of choices, you may give them a few tries and see what works & what you like to play with.
    Good luck & enjoy,
    Powl
     
    Dragonet likes this.
  5. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    The list does have a couple problems but I wouldn't call it rubbish. First of all Manfred (I'm assuming) will be going with the blood knights and the other vamp lord. The problem with this is that Manfred will likely be wanted in very different places and you'll want him attacking very different things than the Vamp lord and the blood knights.You want Mannfred near the centre of your army (assuming he's your general) giving his march bubble and casting spells. Second you have your decked out vamp lord with the blood knights. Either one of these units probably has enough power to kill anything you reasonably want to kill so putting them together seems like a bit of overkill. Screaming banner isn't the best choice especially against lizardmen as except for skinks (which you won't need any help killing in cc anyways) all lizardmen have a very low chance of failing leadership tests even with the banner. As mentioned before you would be better off with a larger unit of ghouls.

    I find it very hard to give tactical advice as so much of it is mid-game decisions but here are a few pointers. You want to keep mannfred (unit-hopping if he is infantry or moving his unit if he is mounted) away from anything really good in combat. He tends to die when fighting good stuff and can generate more dice fighting bad stuff. If you're running more of a deathstar list try running it 3 wide with your vamp lord making way to the front (use black knights to do this). Flanking can provide a bit of a boost for some units but for a deathstar you can probably break him just charging strait into combat (worry more about the position of your deathstar post-combat than pre-combat). Make sure to tarpit his hard hitting units (this is VC you need to get at least one good tarpit in every game :)). I wouldn't recommend using hexwraiths They never work for me but that probably has more to do with me being terrible at using them; I still wouldn't recommend them. Make sure your casting vanhels dance almost every magic phase as repositioning units is key. Overall try and tie up his centre and let your killy stuff do the rest.

    The last point is very important. Read sunny and najo's VC handbook. They know far more about this game than I do and it offers a lot of good advice.
    http://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/sunny-najo’s-vampire-counts-handbook-2014.27561/
     
    Dragonet likes this.
  6. Kriegschmidt

    Kriegschmidt Zombie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Brilliant, thanks Quinten! I shall digest all that. My Lizardmen-toting-friend is apparently getting his army bumped up to 3000pts for Christmas, so I'll be able to field the size of list I prefer.

    A very merry - errr I mean bloody - Christmas to all of you,

    K
     
    Dragonet likes this.

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