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Von Karnstein, 4500 pts 1.3

Discussion in 'Legions of the Damned' started by MedMos, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. MedMos

    MedMos Zombie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    So, this is for the 9th age, in case you hadn't guessed. :) This is not for tournament use, just for fun and because I like Vampires. I am not very thrilled by the changes in 1.2 and 1.3, but I'm a player and will play if I get a chance.

    Without further ado, the list:
    Von Karnstein 4497

    665 Vampire Count (350) General, The Dead Arise (30), Von Karnstein (50)
    Hour of the Wolf (60), Apprentice (Evocation), 1 learned spell (free), Shield (10)
    Armour of Destiny (90), Blade of Red Thirst (75)

    510 Vampire Courtier (170) BSB (50), Von Karnstein (50), Hour of the Wolf (60)
    Apprentice (Evocation)(60) 1 learned spell (free), Halberd (20)
    Mithril Mail (70), Icon of the Relentless Company (30)

    620 Vampire Courtier (170) Von Karnstein (50) Monstrous Revenant (260)
    Heavy Armour (20), Lance (30)
    Sprout of Rebirth (80), Lucky Shield (10)

    550 Skeletons x48 (440) w. spear, Command group (60), Banner of Speed (50)
    120 Bat Swarms x2
    116 Dire Wolves x8
    116 Dire Wolves x8


    220 Cadaver Wagon
    480 Dark Coach
    (440) Extended chassis (20), Stubborn (20)
    740 Barrow Guard x29 (484) w. halberd (116)
    Command group (60), Banner of the Barrow Kings (80)

    360 Varkolak

    Just briefly: General should go in skeletons, BSB in Barrow Guard. Blocks up the middle supported by Wagon and Coach, flanks guarded by Courtier on Revenant and Varkolak. Bats and wolves run interference, along with hopefully some raised Great Bats or more wolves.

    Any thoughts? I had Charm of Cursed Iron on my general, to protect a bit from warmachines, but cut it due to wanting Hour of the Wolf on my Courtier in Barrow Guard. Don't know if it is worth it, it's mostly for Swiftstride on the guard...
    I could also cut the Dark Coach for some Barrow Knights and Wraiths. Would give me another scoring unit and more versatility, but I do love my Coach, so would take some convincing. :) I like the possibility of supporting my infantry with a chariot on the charge (or countercharge).
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  2. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    269
    I would probably trade the dark coach out for an altar with the DT or a varkolak, both would be better choices. Try and find the points to upgrade your third vamp to a wizard, having the third evoctation can really help ram them through.

    I just noticed that you don't have banner of the barrow kings on your GG. You should probably get that on them.
     
  3. Mad 'At

    Mad 'At Dumb enough to work Staff Member True Blood

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    Messages:
    2,345
    @MedMos I can agree with Quinten. I'd also like to point out that the Banner of the Barrows Kings is probably a better choice for the Barrow Guard. Other than that I can only say that I hope you have enough wolves to double both your units in size, because that would look cool :)
     
  4. Leithel

    Leithel Grave Guard

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Messages:
    286
    I disagree with the other two, the Black Coach is awasome and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I mean sure the Altar with DT will probably be more likely to help you win, but that's probably beside the point.

    You're going to be raising a lot, given that you might want to split your skeletons into two units of 25 and raise them up rather than one unit of 50. That way you might get a large flank, because let's face it then never kill squat and you're relying on your guard and vorkolak to clean up while they just hold the line.
     
  5. MedMos

    MedMos Zombie

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    @Quinten & @Mad 'At I know you are right, and I should take the Banner of the Barrow Kings... And I probably will, just wanted to hear what you thought of getting some shooting protection. I realise it is much more situational, hitting more is always more better...
    I'm afraid I don't have neither Altar nor a second Varkolak, so it would be Coach or Knights/Wraiths. And I also find the Coach awesome, @Leithel, if only for the coolness factor.
    Will disagree about the skellies, though. I am having 50 in a unit as I don't want to rely on the fickle 'raise them up'-strategy. With only two evocations and the unreliable winds of magic, I want them to be of healthy numbers to start. Also, no necromancers mean no raising above starting size.

    About that 3rd vampire mage: should I skip Hour of the Wolf on the BSB for it? As I said, it pretty much only provides Swiftstride for the Barrow Guard anyway (and for the chance of strengthening the chaff...). On the other hand, the Courtier on Revenant might be too far on the flanks for helping with the raising anyway. What do you all think?

    Oh, and don't worry, @Mad 'At, I've got wolves! xD

    Thanks for the feedback, have changed the banner in original post.
     
  6. Mad 'At

    Mad 'At Dumb enough to work Staff Member True Blood

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    @MedMos: The main problem with the Zagzvod banner, and this is very much a problem for all similar items, is that that the opponent will simply direct the shooting at other targets. Such powers and abilities are only really useful if they affect multiple units, such as Storm Caller, Divine Altar (DE) and the Battle Shrine (WDG) or they must be on a unit that will cause a lot of problems if not shot to death, such as Vampire Knights. In the opponent shoots at your Barrow Guard you just raise them back so there is little point in protecting them like that.

    The Coach can be useful, and it is a very cool choice so if you like you should definitely keep it.

    I think upgrading the Revenant Courtier to a wizard would be better than having Hour of the Wolf on the other. In a pinch it could help you sustain the army but it can also be used just to keep the Courtier going.
     
  7. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

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    I would not remove the hour of the wolf from one vampire. If you do that the opponent quickly realizes one vamp raises more wolves and one does not. There's basically a guarantee that your opponent won't let you get two evocations through so the power becomes semi-useless.

    I understand you really like the dark coach but a varkolak will probably do just as much for 120 less points. With these points you could upgrade the monster riding guy to get three wizards and give him a blood power. Ultimately, it's your list so if you really like the coach then you can keep it. I have nothing against having some fun. :thumbsup:

    If you need another varkolak this (http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/undead/product/undead-lykanis.html) is where I got mine. The model is fairly nice and it's pretty cheap.
     
  8. Leithel

    Leithel Grave Guard

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    Oh yeah I forgot that you aren't raising skellies above their starting value. Good choice on the large unit.

    Don't listen to @Quinten though, his opinion on the Vorkalak is far too logical and not nearly enough based on the beauty and sleekness of the black coach. You just need to convince your opponent to put their goblin chaff in front of your coach on turn 1 so you can get a vampire out and add flying. I find goblin spider riders are particularly good for this with their scouting and low armour (and yes someone has done me this favour, in a tournament no less)

    Oh, and I second the Mantic Lykanis as a Vorkolak, or if you can still find it the old dark elf manticore is an excellent Lykanis if you remove the wings.
     
  9. MedMos

    MedMos Zombie

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    Thanks again, guys!

    Good points on the Banner, @Mad 'At. And I agree it would be nice to have the wizard upgrade on the second courtier, but @Quinten makes a good point about the wolf-raising... Unfortunately I can't skim the points from the rest of the list, as I am already at 40% characters. Still on the fence about the third wizard, then.

    @Leithel : Your post made me smile inside, beautiful and sleek indeed!I shall have to learn that jedi mindtrick, it must have taken for you to get your opponent to feed your coach that well. xD
     
  10. Quinten

    Quinten Grave Guard

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    I didn't even count up the character points sorry about that. I always seem to have the same problem myself and run out of character points in list-building. Ours' is such a character based army and I feel that even 45% character allowance would really help us out. Oh well, maybe v1.4.
     
  11. MedMos

    MedMos Zombie

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    No worries, @Quinten. I should have put percentages in, can't expect everyone to do my math when asking for help.

    But yes, 40% vanishes quick, and I make it a point to use the maximum I can for characters, as they carry the army. At least the infantry-type armies I tend to build, which I think is the iconic "undead horde".
     

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