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Your thoughts on proxying models

Discussion in 'The Necrarch Workshop' started by Krede, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. Krede

    Krede Zombie

    Apr 30, 2011
    I have been searching for some skeletal dogs (dire wolves) to fit my army theme of SKELETON undead. It seems however that most dead dogs are more of the zombie kind rather that pure skeletons, so I am now consider converting up some tomb king skeletal horsemen and mixing in some of the mantic dogs from the skeleton sprues in a dog/handler set up,goeng for a medival boar hunt theme, but playing them as "count as" dire wolves.

    How would you feel about playing against such units?
  2. Lynks

    Lynks Lord of RAW Staff Member True Blood

    Dec 29, 2010
    As long as the model fits the purpose ie, is on the same base, is approximately the same height and is clearly fulfilling the role of the original unit I doubt many people would have much of a problem. Quite a lot of people use alternates to stand in for models they don't like, or to match a slightly different vision of the army.

    What people tend to have an issue with is:
    -models that look nothing like the role they fulfill (ie a dragon standing in for a chariot)
    -or people making no effort to make models look the part (such as plonking down a bunch of high elf spearmen to use as skeletons with no effort to make them look undead)
    -or, in the worst case, using paper or other things like tin cans as stand ins- this just seems a rude insult to players who have put a lot of effort into making their armies look nice.

    Proxying with a model that looks like it'll do the job tends not to be referred to as proxying and most of the time is just called converting. What people tend to refer to when they talk of proxying is the things listed above, which is OK once or twice to test something before buying models but is seriously disliked in the long run.

    The reason for this is you judge a board state by looking at the models and even if you have been informed prior what each of your opponents models actually are rules wise (which your opponent (or you in this case) should always inform them of) it's very easy to accidentally forget when taking stock of things and consider that dragon to be a chariot and act according to it being a dragon- a momentary lapse like this can have a big impact on the game.

    In short- make sure whatever you are using to proxy to stand in for models you dislike not be confused on the fly.

    My issue with using the tomb kings skeleton horsemen is that people could easily mistake them for black knights at a glance, so I would go to lengths to make sure that they do not look like a unit of knights, but a unit of savage animals.
  3. Krede

    Krede Zombie

    Apr 30, 2011
    My main concern is than dw's are warbeasts and the riders are obviously cavalry. However , I would be mixing infantry and cavalry as i intend to put in dogs and handlers amongst the riders , so i don't think they will be mistaken for knights
  4. Shadespyre

    Shadespyre Necromancer

    Aug 11, 2012
    I'd be all for it. The important thing is to have the basing work and for the minis to be about the right size, as said above. A couple of cavalry in a unit shouldn't matter. I've got units of Empire Knights and infantry with Wolves and Warhounds mixed in, no-one gets confused so far...

    Apart from the Mantic models, here are a few others I've seen...

    Iron Wind Skeleton Dog Handler

    Splintered Light Skeleton Wolves

    Battlezone Skeleton Wolf

    Pretty sure there is a D&D skeleton wolf in the pre-painted rubbery range. I'm sure I recall old Grenadier and Ral Partha models too, but they don't seem to have made it into the current Mirliton and IronWind ranges.
  5. Olethros70

    Olethros70 Grave Guard

    Apr 3, 2014
    As Links explained above, you seem to talk about conversions more than proxying. Love those converted units, personally, because they give an interesting, and sometimes exclusive, look to the armies.

    Nowadays I live in a country with a GDP of 0.6% of the world´s (USA is 25%, for comparation purposes). There are very few shops (very very few, a small one with very limited offer of GW boxes and blisters, and GW only, in a city of 3,5 million inhabitants, for instance) and a low middle-income. I used to be intolerant with proxying when I lived in Europe, but now I see the matter in a very different way when I came across local young people making great efforts to play Warhammer Fantasy Battle, 40K, Warmachine, Infinity and some others. They use proxys very often, even from different games, they use paper too, toys and even handcrafted stuff. And I cannot blame then, not here.
  6. Skittelz1981

    Skittelz1981 Varghulf

    Apr 28, 2013

    I cannot blame anyone using proxies. Even in Europe, warhammer is still expensive. I dont think GDP or income changes anything. Sure its even harder for third or secondworld country inhabitants to spend on things like plastic soldiers but that changes nothing in the fact that even in europe or any other rich country, it still remains a very expensive hobby.

    Proxying is something i do all the time, even using empty bases or models from other armies to complete lists that i otherwise wouldnt be able to play.
    In my meta actually alot of people do it, usually its only for filling up a unit you lack models of and sometimes an entire unit.

    I am totally fine with that and i simply dont understand people that are thoroughly against it and even refuse to play against it. If youre so keen on your enemy having all the exact models or conversions that are acceptable, why dont you buy it for them then.
    In the end, someone like me easily spends around 2k euros on one army. If i lack a few spirit hosts or anything, i cant be blamed imo.

    Especially with the new duo-packaged assemblykits, GW found a way to sell boxes for more $ and requiring you to buy even more to be able to craft all the models. If i want 2 TG and a zombie dragon ill have to buy 3x50,- boxes that each comprise the dualkit. If it was sold as single kits, it might have been 3x35,-. quite a difference.
    If you like having bits and parts that you cant assemble as whole but use it elsewhere fine but if you simply intend to build only a TG and the rest is just trash... then youve been paying extra money for nothing :D
  7. Krede

    Krede Zombie

    Apr 30, 2011
    Thanks for the replies guys. I have decided to try converting up some Dogs from some wargames factory skeleton torsos, and perhaps throw in the odd one or two cavalry man in each unit of dire wolves, perhaps to represent the doom wolf.
    But the main body of troops still have to be the dogs, mostly because there are some rules differences between cavalry and war beasts(mounted save, can/can't get stomped and so on.)
    It will take quite a while to get that many dogs converted, which pains me since , at the moment, I am "that guy" that uses proxies, or empty bases, for much of my army.

    This has nothing to do with me not being able, or willing, to pay for the "proper" models, but is more that I have a set mind about what I want the army to look like...combined with precious little hobby time ...so believe me... I have most of the stuff I need sitting on the shelves waiting..... I just need the time to get it all pieced together :)

    As for the cost of war gaming I would not say that it is an expensive hobby at all, when compared to other hobbies, and taking into account the amount of stuff that gets thrown at children now a days (no way I would have gotten a bloody iphone when I was twelve years old!)
    I started collecting my first army in the early 90'is and after being away from the hobby for a good decade or so, has found the prices that GW demand , to be exorbitant if not to say down right ridiculous. Still... I don't play in any local GW store so there is no need to buy all the models from them, especially when much of the fun in the hobby , for me, is designing and building the stuff from bits a pieces of other models, of which we have gotten A LOT more to choose from in just the last 2-3 years. Even plastics are becoming available from alternative manufacturers (mantic , fireforge, perry, Shield wolf)
    So regarding cost, I think the main issue is, that its a hobby where you need to invest a lot of time as well as money to really get the most from it, and that the commitment to assemble and paint an army might just be too much for many people.
  8. Pirate Robot Ninja of Death

    Pirate Robot Ninja of Death Vampire Thrall

    Nov 13, 2013
    I'm using "skeletal centaurs" for my dogs. Cut the head off a skeleton horse, glue the torso of a tomb kings spearman in its place, and voila! You've got a S3 T3 model with a spear who *isn't* mounted, and makes total sense from a rules perspective.
  9. snyggejygge

    snyggejygge Skeleton

    Jun 28, 2014
    Personally I don´t mind people using models that is not official, converted or Counts as is fine as long as it is clear what everything is & one doesn´t get confused about it during the game. I Think your idea sounds very clear & I´m glad you Went with it, make sue to post some pics!
  10. MageoftheBones

    MageoftheBones Skeleton

    Sep 27, 2013
    I think the tomb kings light calvary perhaps even with riders since Counts don't have any other kind of light calvary would be ok even in tournaments since the slavering charge is about the same as a spear anyway. Just explain and make sure your opponent knows they are Dire wolves which should be obvious to a vet player in a tourney. Outside of a tourney very few people if anyone would have an issue with the changed model as long as they were aware what you are doing.
  11. StavrosVonStrongheim

    StavrosVonStrongheim Zombie

    Sep 5, 2014
    If ppl have problems with proxies, they can go play by themselves or be the ppl screaming in tournaments "THIS IS NOT A LEGIT MODEL!" because of a conversion.
    Conversions are part of the hobby. Also, if you are one charriot short, what's the problem to field an empty base just for once?

    Anyway, about your question, I believe that TK would be the best choice for what your are looking for. Also, after you finish with the conversions, it would be awesome if u could upload your pieces :)
    Just be sure to fit them in the right bases and you are set to destroy any enemies in your path legally ^_^

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