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1000 point Team Tourney List

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#1
Hey all,

I'm off to a little tournament next weekend, 3 games, 1000 points for player- the clincher is, you're paired up with another player (you don't pick!) and play throughout the day for your three games.

The organiser doesn't really like the special character and min-maxing that goes on far too much in tournaments these days, so special characters are banned, and there are special composition limits, so for 1000 points 2 special choices and 2 heroes maximum. Of course this leaves Vampire Counts in a bad position, as only two heroes makes for some pretty weak armies, sadly.

So it's either VC or High Elves. Here's the two lists I'm thinking of:

Vampire Counts
Necromancer, Level 2, Cloak of Mist and Shadows
Necromancer, Level 2, Black Periapt, Power Stone
18 Skeletons + Light Armour, Full Command
2 x 6 Ghouls
6 Black Knights + Barding, Standard, War Banner
5 Black Knights + Barding
Banshee

I expect the Banshee will be quite useful, as there's more chance of facing non-ItP armies, so she should always have a good target or two. No Storm of Chaos armies, either.

High Elves (They can have 3 specials and 2 rares)
Mage, Level 2, Jewel of the Dusk
Noble riding Tiranoc Chariot, Dragon Armour, Enchanted Shield, Star Lance
18 Spearmen, Full Command, War Banner
6 Dragon Princes, Full Command
Tiranoc Chariot
Repeater Bolt Thrower

So two fast-moving chariots, should be pretty powerful, especially with the Star Lance in one, plus some solid infantry and powerful cavalry. Downside is I still need to base a lot of these models properly ;)

So what do you guys think?
 

Arion

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
3,414
#2
I like the look of the VC list more, it looks like it will work better.

Why the cloak though?

you could have:

Necromancer 1:
power familiar

Necromancer 2:
Black Periapt , Book of Arkhan.

they complement each other.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#3
Well no, you couldn't have that because the Periapt and Book are both Arcane Item ;)

I don't like the VC list because it forces me to rely on my units to do stuff, without any support from killy characters. But then it has more than 30 models in it, so I like that better too ;)
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#4
I don't know HE well enough to decide between them. From my experiences playing two player games, VC is heavily reliant on their magic. You have 6 + a possible 1 power dice. If you're paired with a partner that takes no magic (dwarf) and your opponents each have one lvl1 wizard, you're looking at your 6 + 1 power dice vs their 6. Not reliable.

So I would take a list that did not depend on magic at all, or as little as possible.

If you do decide to go with VC, I'd consider putting your necromancer general on a Nightmare in order to flee if necessary.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#5
It makes a big difference how the magic rules work. If each pair in the team gets the 'normal' number of dice and you end up with a low magic partner, the enemy will probably have more DD than you have PD.

We play one pool per team.

It also depends on how dispels are handled. Can any enemy player attempt to dispel any spell?

We play that the owner of an affected unit is the only one that can attempt to dispel. If no unit is affected (it's a buff for example) then any player can attempt to dispel.

Depending on the rules, magic can be quite nerfed, or reasonably to very powerful. I would not take an army relying on magic without knowing which.

I'd consider a dual Necromancer Zombie / Skeleton 'horde' supported by Spirit Host and Banshee.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#6
The dice pools will be a single pool, so I'd be looking at 6 (+1) power dice and then whatever my partner would have, against 2 dice + whatever magic defence people will take. With only two character slots per 1000 points, I doubt people will bother with too much magic defence, but who knows?

Dual Necromancers with ghosts wouldn't work for me, as I need to actually kill something sometimes, as unstoppable as the force might be. So it's 2/3 votes for the Vampire-less Vampire force so far, none for the High Elves. Probably for the best, as I have yet to win a game with 7th edition High Elves!
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#7
As it happens nearly every other army going along is going to be High Elves, so we're going to have High Elves on almost every team, so I'm very glad I've gone for Vampires! I modified the list to get the Book of Arkhan in there in place of the Periapt, I don't have many undead troops, but even if I just move my Banshee an extra 8" to get into prime screaming position (Great for taking out Dragon Mages, let me tell you), it'll have been worth it.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#8
And Drain Magic with bound spells will make it that much sweeter :)

Good luck, let us know how you do.

Also, would you mount your general? Why or why not? I think the extra model in a unit to have a better chance of creating an extra rank would work.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#9
I won't mount my general because then he can't use the Cloak of Mist and Shadows. It's not the most reliable way of keeping him alive (Especially since every 1000 point tournament game I've had has been against Wood Elves that can harm him), but hopefully it'll get its points back. Plus if he enters a challenge with a Swordmaster Champion then he can't be harmed, mwhahaha.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#10
Well, I was paired off with a guy called Paul, who had brought along his Chaos. 3 x 5 fully-kitted Marauder Horsemen, 5 Chosen Knights, 6 Furies and a Sorcerer on Steed of Slaanesh was all he had, but ig gave us a fast, hitty force. Could me make the most of it?

First game was against High Elves and Wood Elves, the hard-hitters being Swordmasters, Dragon Princes, two units of Wild Riders and a Treeman. Plus 6 dispel dice from their three mages! Things started off well for us, first turn saw the Treeman lose two wounds to nasty Slaaneshi magic, and my the third turn the Chosen had smashed through the Swordmasters and their Mage on the right flank, who had been rendered useless by magic. However the left flank did not go so well, as the Furies were weakened by massed bowfire and eventually kill by Bolt Thrower crew. A unit of Marauder Horsemen threw themselves at some Dryads to save the Banshee, and amazingly won combat two turns in a row- but the Dryads prevailed and proceeded to wipe out the Banshee, her only victims up to that point two Glade Guard.

My stuff wasn't managing to do much, to be honest. My infantry and leader had gone into a building to stop the Wild Riders slaughtering him, leaving the mounted Necromancer out with my cavalry. The sticking point was that I charged Dragon Princes with my Black Knights, didn't know if I could reach, but I painstakingly measured it, and found that yes, they were in range. At which point our opponents said they'd flee... I don't know how, but we all completely missed that this is obviously very much not how to do things- you can't wait until the charge is measured to decide to flee! But these games can be quite hectic, and we missed it. After that point the Wild Riders soundly beat up my Black Knights (Yeah, light cavalry beating heavy cavalry, that's how it should be!) and by the end, me and my partner had lost about 1000 points, and despite the good start our opponents had lost about 600 points- the Wood Elves only giving away VPs for half a unit of Dryads. Overall a loss!

Next it was the classic combination of Dwarfs and a Skink horde. Lovely Dwarfs, including two big units (one made of female Hammerers) that no-one would even bother to crack all torunament, plus a Cannon, Organ Gun and Thunderers. The Lizardmen had 40 Skinks, 3 Salamanders, 3 Kroxigor and two Shamen- ouch! However my partner came up with a great plan for us... which was only really hampered by the other Lizardmen unit, Chameleon Skinks, that set up right by all our heavy cavalry. I messed up my deployment, leaving my Skeletons away from the main battleline, and my foot Necromancer escorting the Knights (Slowing them down even further!). The Chameleons managed to kill three Chosen, survive a Banshee scream unscathed (I had to have that stupid discussion once again about whether troops in combat are immune to psychology... god damn it they're not and there is no reason to beleive they would be if you read the rulebook!) and were only run down by a unit of Black Knights that went back for them. Very annoying unit. Despite the Chosen being reduced to two models and the Sorcerer, they still smashed through some Skinks and ran off some panicked Salamanders... though the Salamanders didn't take the nearby Shaman off with them, it was a great assault. The Furies managed to defeat the Cannon Crew amazingly, though the Organ Gun left its mark and finished off the Chosen and the Slaaneshi Steed- which, handily enough, left the Sorcerer on foot to charge and wound the Shaman that would have otherwise been out of line of sight. Then the Furies killed the Organ Gun crew as well. On my end, some Skinks wandered too close to the woods, and my Ghouls tried to charge them. Needing 7+ to hit (Single shot!), the 10 Skinks killed two Ghouls, the unit panicked and ran, then the Skinks charged and wiped them out (They ran less than 7" from two flees). The Kroxigor failed a charge against my Knights with leader, then I counter-failed my charge as well somehow! So eventually the Krox went in, and I helped them decide to allocate three attacks to my ethereal Necromaner... evil, I know! They weren't happy, but what should people expect for 45 points? Last time I let someone know before deciding what to attack, it resulted in a wound on another unit giving him 90VPs and victory, so I don't feel bad about it. The Black Knights survived and the Krox took a flank charge from the Marauder Horsemen and were utterly broken. This time we had a win, but not by too much.

So onto our last opponents, Orcs and Ogres. Yum. Two big blocks of Orcs, a unit of useless Goblins, 2 Boar Chariots and a Wolf Chariot with Big Boss, and a Giant as well. The Ogre force was modest- Bulls, Ironguts, Gnoblars, Maneaters, a Butcher and a Bruiser. The combined army was lead by a Black Orc Big Boss. Lots of hitty stuff, and they were glad not to be facing a gunline for the third game in a row, but they had just three dispel dice and one scroll- this was going to hurt.

Now Orcs are one of the easiest opponents for undead to fight, I can destroy Orc armies as if they’re nothing. This was no different, they got the first turn and lurched forward, so my Banshee went straight forward and screamed a Chariot to death. That wasn’t the skill though, that was lucky dice, the skill was that sending her out front which meant that if the Orcs called an early Waaagh! then his big blocks would have to go towards her and expose their flanks badly. So they did not, one unit squabbled anyway, and next turn they were all slaughtered; Black Knights in the flank of one unit, destroyed; Black Knights in the front of the other, raised a new unit of Zombies in the back which were VHDed in, killed the hero on the charge, unit breaks, and that’s 600 VPs straight off. Plus the dead Chariot and the other Chariot, which took 3 wounds from my next scream and was hit by both overrunning units of Knights.

At this point the Orc player became very sulky, and without his partner’s enthusiasm, the game would have been over and ruined. The Ogre player essentially took over and brought the army back in it; the Ironguts charged the flank of the Black Knights (A faux pas by my opponent- I’d wheeled in the charge to keep my guys well away, but he “maximised” them evenly for me, even though the way I had them, further from the Ogres, was maximised already) the Giant charged the Furies covering the Black Knights’ flank, destroyed them and overran into the Knights… fighting again, he and the Ironguts did enough damage to destroy both units of Knights. The charge and the overrun were very dodgy though, when the Giant overran the Furies I was sure he’d be blocked in by the Goblin Chariot next to him, so pushed him straight forward… his base nudged the Chariot out the way which meant it wasn’t really a legal charge, but it’s hard to enforce unfavourable rules when one opponent already looks like he’s about to walk off.

So now we were basically even! Our opponents had virtually perfect dice at that point, the Butcher was casting at least three spells a turn on a 5 or a 6, plus his Bangstick, which destroyed the Banshee (We rolled a 1 to dispel on bound power 3… several times). Eventually the Giant charged the flank of my Skeletons with Necromancers, went to pick up and eat my Necromancer… but he was ethereal, so he couldn’t. This time we did not allow them to sway us with arguments like “but it’s not an attack! It doesn’t say it can’t be killed by Giants!”, and so the Giant’s attack was wasted. The Giant was wounded, and my Ghouls were close by, hoping to add their rear bonus and poison attacks to the carnage… but I failed their fear test (With our general’s leadership of 8) three times, which locked my unit into place long enough for the Maneaters and two Ogre characters to storm in and destroy my unit with their 50,000 S29 attacks (each). We didn’t achieve that much else in the game: classic VC tactics of raising Zombies to the enemies flanks and VHDing them in destroyed the Ironguts. The Goblin Chariot was eventually destroyed by Marauder Horsemen, but the Chosen were conflicted from going after the Goblins (They had a standard), who fled, rallied and passed panic tests to survive. Gaining any points at all became a real slog, as 18 raised Zombies assaulted Gnoblars worth 50 points, 3 Horsemen in their flank and we didn’t even catch them when they ran! Another set of horsemen charged the Bulls in the flank, but even with their flails did nothing, fled, and gave away their VPs. Yet another unit failed their terror test that I pointed out to my team mate (That’s what honesty gets ya!).

So at the end I had lost most my army, so had the Orcs, but Chaos and Ogres had a fair bit remaining. We did have two quarters and the enemy general at least, though they had one more standard and their own quarter. All in all: a draw! I’ve not played many games where a victory has been deserved more than this- but it was hard to keep the killer instinct when every enemy model killed was removed with a grimace and every action taken like it was a real drag.

So three games, one win, one draw and one loss! We played well and had a great team going, but undead at 1000 points does not work well, you basically can’t go anywhere without your Necromancers, and if you do, you suffer for it anyway. The alternative is taking fighting characters, which means your magic is useless. I was glad for the ethereal Necromancer, though both my opponents who directed attacks at him were annoyed at being tricked. What did they expect, me to let them kill my general for free- come on! It was a good tournament though, quite a few High Elves but not as many as I expected. Not sure who won, either…
 
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