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12 Point Characteristics

ironlord

Black Knight
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
397
#1
Basically I posted a new thread about who has the most wounds and it topped out at 10 because thats the way the system works. But that got people chatting about a major "what if?" question wondering what would happen too the game if the upper limit for some or all of the characteristics was 12 instead of 10?
This thread is now an open discussion about the consequences of a 12 point characteristics system.
 

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,342
#2
I have to say it will create a lot more difference in terms of stats. Most of the stats are now at 3 to 5 for most creatures. It does depend on each characteristic.

That said, LD max of 12 causes problems for 2D6 tests and the like... Except that, maybe double 6 should always fail.... But that would make no difference between Ld 11 and Ld 12.

It would cause some weird idea to make a unit move at 12".... Makes the game faster and a gives a unit a very powerful ability, seeing that movement is often key to winning. If I recall correctly (it is a long time ago), a walking unit would be able to march just as far as a Flyer can go in the current rules). This is theoretically, though. I don't know of a unit who moves 10" in the current rules... maybe I'm mistaken.

Those two characteristics are the ones I would think need some tweaking if it were to be true.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,886
#5
Bat swarms? (iirc)... anything on a steed of slaanesh.

But, there are not too many things that move 10"
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
3,607
#6
I much like the 12 point modification. With the exception of LEadership, which should stay the same, I think that extra points in I could replace the 'ASF' rule that High elves have- I mean seriously. I of 10 or so is plenty. Why give them that rule?

Strength is a touchy one. Should any models be above 10 strength? Cannons could, I suppose, but they already wound anything on twos and don't allow armor saves. Maybe if you really, really wanted to be mean with a Thirster or a Giant or something.

Toughness- hah! Is there anything in the game above T 7? I don't want to -THINK- about a T 12 creature.
"Your cannon wounds on a 6." :|

12 attacks? I've seen the full 14 from a thirster, but I can't see any reason why anything would have that many.

Wounds? Great unclean one, giants, Dragons....these should all be tougher in my mind. A giant falling because he got poisoned by skinks is laughable. He should be able to last a stand and shoot without issue. =/


The biggest factor would be WS. Weapon Skill is a huge factor in WFB, allowing to hit modifiers to be thrown around, but it doesn't accurately portray the amount of time and skill that a person (Model) spent to earn than. Elves have a WS of 4, and that's considered 'Elite' among the human sized peoples. They've had -Centuries- of training, but they only get a 4. A human swordsman who's been training for say, 10 years has a 4. It makes no sense that someone who lives for so much longer and is Dedicated to war as their only task in life (Dark Elves, High Elven warriors, etc) should be equal to humans. Elves should inherently be -better-, not due to special rules but due to stats.

Same thought with skeletons. They suck at life, we know this. WS 2 isn't fun. That's acceptable, we are barely able to hold spears or swords, much less with any dexterity. Blood Dragon Lords? Easily a 9 WS, in my mind. They're Vampires (Superhuman strength, speed, agility, and reflexes) and they dedicate their unlives to studying the weapon of their choice. They should be higher.

So, In the basic thought I'm a proponent of the 12 point system, just not 'Ad Hoc' or poorly implemented. It could really be used to correctly represent the skills and character of the armies well, if done correctly.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,917
#7
I agree pretty much with you Oni.

I do think over the last few editions they have really portrayed models very poorly. The just don't fit the fluff in my mind, and if extending the characteristics would fix that I would be all for it, providing it was done competently.

However I doubt GW would ever do it, as they have this thing about simplifying and dumbing down rules. So I can't imagine them doing this.
 
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