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2000 Blood Dragon

Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#1
Greetings, I'm posting my Army List purely as an introductory, not for suggestions. I know how 'horrible' the list is, and despite that enjoy a much higher win than loss ratio with it (about 3 to 1), and I can't even remember the last time my General was killed. This is my VC army, it will never change. :tongue:

  • Blood Dragon Vampire Lord
    • Level 3 Wizard
    • Zombie Dragon
    • Blood Drinker
    • Master Strike
    • Dependant on Army Faced
      • Strength of Steel
      • Enchanted Shield
    • Or
      • Heart Piercing
      • Shield
  • Wraith
    • Barded Ethereal Nightmare
    • Cursed Book
  • 14 units of 5 Dire Wolves (70 Dire Wolves)
  • 4 units of 5 Fell Bats (20 Fell Bats)

The way I run this army is probably obvious. I use the Dire Wolves as sacrificial lambs, pulling units off my Vampire Lord so that he can destroy 1 unit at a time. The Wraith rarely gets used, not needed with the Cloud of Flies usually, but if facing a worthy foe, the Wraith comes up behind my Lord and provides an additional -1 to hit the Lord or Dragon. Bats are mostly to handle war machines quickly, and if there are limited numbers of those, they work on either ranged units (only if they have at least a S4 attack) or as sacrificial lambs the same as the Wolves.

He doesn't combat solid units of rank-n-file, such as Knights on horses, or Eternal Guard. There's no need. Dispatch everything else, stay out of charge, and win with VPs or, once all the enemy mages are gone (if that's possible), magic them to death. Curse of Years is king in a field without extra dispel dice.

Anyhows, thought I'd read up on how some fellow vamps do things, but thought this sort of intro best for saying Hi. I don't imagine I'll be posting alot here, but I should be here daily to read up on things. :)

PS. The reason this army will never change is because it's "cheesy". I use Vampire Counts on the days I don't feel like working out a complex strategy for winning. Just alot of dice rolling and enemies dying (not so often really, but sometimes....). And on days I have to face other 'cheese', such as a Greater Demon or someone who likes using a Dragon in their army. :tongue: My -other- army can't beat a Greater Demon or even a Dragon even with the best of rolls.
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#2
seriously i know you will never change but have you ever considered using a von carstein? they would fit your army theme much better than a Blood Dragon as they can summon both wolves and bats
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#3
I have considered, I opted against it not only because the Vampire Lord IS the army, so the best stats and armour is a necessity for survival, but because thematically, the 'lone character' is a Blood Dragon theme, and I'm a role-player. Yeah, Carsteins have alot, and use alot of Wolves and Bats, but they are still, thematically, Generals of an Army. A Blood Dragon is a loner. So, as the Loner type of Army with only 1 unit (that Loner) ever having the potential to actually kill something greater than a crew from a war machine, Blood Dragons are not only fitting, but required for any chance to win.
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#4
oh i wouldnt say that they are necessary to win, even when you are relying on it to be your one man army. it is possible to make a von carstein very hard to kill, and you can always just make up a reason why he is on his own (you could even say that fluff-wise he is an unarmoured Blood Dragon or something :) )
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#6
comes down to what i want. i could either give him the von Carstein Ring, which would make him more survivable but would kinda defeat the whole point in taking him. i could give him summon wolves and summon bats, but then he would be vulnerable. most likely i would give him summon wolves, aura of dark majesty (to make the army even faster) either ring of the night or crown of the damned for protection, and maybe an arcane item to give me more magic in case i come up agaisnt a dwarf army or similarly magic defence orientated army. it would actually have a bit more protection agaisnt certain things (a.k.a. bolt throwers and cannons, and other things taht ignore armour) than your blood dragon
overrall i would mostly just take it for the fluff though :D
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#7
Well, I appreciate the idea, but I've tried similar builds already with my Blood Dragon. I used the Crown of the Damned in my very first attempt at the army, and a few times since then, but the best defense for this guy is a high offense. I'd rather get into Close Combat, kill everything in base-contact so it can't hit back, and not need a ward save (since I'm in combat so shooting/spells aren't useful). I really think this is not only the best build for the loner army, but the best fluff as well. :)
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#8
the only problems come in when the opponent get the first turn, or they are skaven who can shoot into combat anyway, or when an overrun leaves you out of combat, or when you cant make it into combat on the first turn, etc etc :) and most zombie dragon riding vampire lords can be relied upon to kill everything in base combat, 5S5 attacks and i think it's 6S6 attacks tend to do that :lol:
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#9
Yeah, the Skryre Armies are the armies I hate most. As a large target, it doesn't even matter. I've had to play games hiding behind rocks and walls because of those armies while my bats tried their best to get through to handle them (which rarely works since they usually have alot of Jezzails too). This is definitely not the best army list vs Skryre, but it's still more effective than my Wood elf army. :tongue: Fortunately, Laser Beams tend to blow up quickly or fail long enough to get a charge on them (though that usually requires using the Dance to get the charge), and they tend to shoot at bats alot due to the threat ratio, so by the time the bats are dead, the Cannons usually are too, and never seen a Jezzail unit survive a Dragon charge. :tongue: But it's one of the armies I most hate playing against. Haven't dealt with a ASF unit/model yet, those armies tend to fight my Wood Elves not my Vampire. ;)
 

Azahul

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
#10
schmeh, im not going to argue with you too much, ive never used a zombie dragon, so since you have the experience it's your decision. and who doesnt hate skryre armies?
 

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,342
#11
Yeah, the Skryre Armies are the armies I hate most. As a large target, it doesn't even matter. I've had to play games hiding behind rocks and walls because of those armies while my bats tried their best to get through to handle them (which rarely works since they usually have alot of Jezzails too). This is definitely not the best army list vs Skryre, but it's still more effective than my Wood elf army. Fortunately, Laser Beams tend to blow up quickly or fail long enough to get a charge on them (though that usually requires using the Dance to get the charge), and they tend to shoot at bats alot due to the threat ratio, so by the time the bats are dead, the Cannons usually are too, and never seen a Jezzail unit survive a Dragon charge. But it's one of the armies I most hate playing against. Haven't dealt with a ASF unit/model yet, those armies tend to fight my Wood Elves not my Vampire.
Be aware though that when you charge a Warplighting Cannon, it has to flee automatically.

Jezzials are more annoying. But I heard they aren't the most cost-effective shooting. o_o
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
2,370
#14
So you switch item setup depending on opponent? In my club that is cheating, but to each their own I guess.

I don't think you have a fluffy list, as I don't envision Blood Dragons to go nuts on Wolves and Bats, that's a Carstein theme. And you don't have a single Wight.

I can't see this army winning against Wood Elves or Anvil Dwarfs either, unless they are newbies.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#15
Uhm, how is that cheating? If I'm going up against Ogres, why would I take a Killing Blow power? o.o You're telling me that in your club, you create a list and for the rest of your life you have to stick to that list? o.o

As for fluff, we have very differing opinions on that. Fluff is, by war game definition, to fluff your army with a storyline/description. Not to go by Canon on what the Armybook portrays something as. However, since the theme of a Blood Dragon is a solo adventurer in search of the ultimate warrior to battle, him bringing Wights along makes even less sense. This is, in my opinion, the most 'fluff' a Blood Dragon can get. The lone character in any setting usually has an affinity for animals, so to me, wolves/bat makes alot more sense than an army of men-at-arms.

Regardless, as I said in the beginning, this isn't a Vampire. It's a Wood Elf made using the Vampire Counts book (because I've been playing this list since the very week the book came out until years later they finally deemed Wood Elves worthy of an Armybook), and Wolves/Warhawks (DireWolves/FellBats) are perfectly in theme.

And no, I would probably lose against wood Elves, but I'd gladly take him against Anvil Dwarves any day.
 

Voltaire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
2,763
#16
Sphynx said:
Uhm, how is that cheating? If I'm going up against Ogres, why would I take a Killing Blow power? o.o You're telling me that in your club, you create a list and for the rest of your life you have to stick to that list? o.o
I believe this is called 'Tournament Play'. This consists of choosing an 'all comers' list which is what N.I.B is referring to. This is not done to try and be boring, its done to try and make sure that a list is able to fight against anyone and everyone in any circumstance.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#17
Ok, well we're just a bunch of RPGers who get together and pit our armies against each other. None of us has even the slightest interest in tournaments, especially official tournaments. Someone brings an army and I pull out one to match, or I bring an army and they pull out one to match. Livingroom/garage/etc sort of game-play.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#18
It's not just tournament play, it's just general good practice to learn to play with an all-comers list. Sometimes opponents let me switch dispel scrolls for power stones, but that's about as tailored as I'd go. It's hard to judge the quality of your list if you tailor much more than that (But switching killing blow for another power isn't the end of the world either). But yours sounds like a pretty power-gaming list in the first place, it should do well.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#19
Do you honestly think it's a "power-gaming list"? Maybe we have different definitions of Power Gaming though.... Why do you call it Power Gaming?
 

Voltaire

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
2,763
#20
Simple, you're using an army consisting of Fast Cavalry and not much else. That is a Power Gaming list in many peoples books because its a very specialised, simple to play list. I could do a similar set up with Dark Riders for Dark Elves where I never got charged because my Fast Cavalry were simply better and your army would get shot to pieces. The reason is not that the list is better than everyone elses, it just dominates a single phase in a way that there is nothing which can counter it.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#21
If my wolves could shoot, that might make sense. But what are they going to do other than rush into a close combat that they're going to lose? Fast Cavalry for a purely close-combat unit isn't my definition of Power Gaming at all. Dark Riders, yeah, that I can see. Putting the Lord on a Steed in the middle of a huge block of Black Knights, that I can see as being Power Gaming. Relying entirely on one model for everything, something Large and thus much more vulnerable to missile fire, I'd call this list the exact opposite of Power Gaming.
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#22
Sphynx said:
If my wolves could shoot, that might make sense. But what are they going to do other than rush into a close combat that they're going to lose? Fast Cavalry for a purely close-combat unit isn't my definition of Power Gaming at all. Dark Riders, yeah, that I can see. Putting the Lord on a Steed in the middle of a huge block of Black Knights, that I can see as being Power Gaming. Relying entirely on one model for everything, something Large and thus much more vulnerable to missile fire, I'd call this list the exact opposite of Power Gaming.
Bolded to highlight the powergaming nature of the list. Relying on one 800 point model that is almost unkillable is pretty much the definiton of powergaming. Yeah, it's vulnerable to missile fire, but hey, look, your entire army can fly out on turn one and kill it by turn 2, while your general hides behind a wood until it's safe.

As Voltaire says, the massed fast cavalry also makes it a powergaming list; unless you're an idiot, you're not going to charge your Dire Wolves into combats that they will certainly lose: instead you'll be zooming them all over the place, positioning them to divert the enemy and control the movement phase, all the while as your general gets into place to slaughter whoever might be his next target. Also, there's the massive points-denial nature of the list: not a single unit of infantry and no standards. If the enemy gets lucky and kills two units of Wolves in one turn, they get 100 points. If they can keep it up all games, then that's 600 VPs for them, at maximum. Whoopee!

So yes, it's a powergaming list in my opinion, and to be frank I think you're playing dumb by pretending that the general is so easily killed by missile fire (Yet it never actually happens, does it?) and that the rest of your army is so "horrible". But don't worry that I'm saying that it's a power list: it's not a bad thing to have someone say you've got a strong list, after all. It's actually a compliment, in a way! Hell, you even described it as "cheese" yourself, what's the problem? :mrgreen:
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#23
The "problem" (it's not a problem) is that I lose more with this army than any army I play with. Of all my armies, I think it's the easiest one to beat. Power Gaming to me means Bunkered Thorek with 4 Cannons and 2 Organ guns. I call it "cheese" because as soon as someone sees a Dragon, that's the word that comes out of their mouth, as if calling it a derogatory name is going to make me change my list. And generally, this army only works well if the army I'm opposing is very limited in number of units. With so many points in 1 model, despite having only 50 points a unit, I'm still often outnumbered and losing a heckuva lot more than 2 units a turn. My Fell Bats that you put so much faith in are often the first to go as the enemy goes out of their way to make sure they are obliterated before they cross the field. The Wolves, while fast, are usually marching at 9" due to their number and distance from the Lord. Most times they just die as I try to force the enemy to charge them instead of me, and if I'm LUCKY, on the 5th turn I still have at least 1 unit of Wolves left.

Playing dumb and pretending? I'm talking from experience here boss, and hearing this from you, I have to say that you're the one sounding like you're "playing dumb" here if you think this army is going to yield such an outstanding result. The only time he does well is if I play one of those insane "all-comers" lists with alot of weak units to 'balance' things out. Any sort of specialist list or elite army (try winning against -any- Elven army with this), and I'm usually quite dead within 3 turns. Can't beat any Dwarven army with this unless it's a Slayer army, though I'm always eagerly trying. Lizardmen tear this guy apart with skinks effortlessly. TK's have a field day with it. I can probably beat most Beasts and O&G armies I suppose, and any army that goes for minimal units (Chaos with a Dragon Rider and 3 Chariots). But 'most' armies can tear this one apart easily.

Anyhows, I lost about 4 for every 5 games I played when I started this army, and am happy to win about 2 for every 3 I play now. But that's success from experience, not power gaming, at least not by my definition of power gaming (powerful army that can beat most anything, like if I used the same character in a unit of Black Knights and fielded a ton of Grave Guard).
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
4,834
#24
To claim most armies tear your forces apart whilst simultaneously touting a 3-wins-for-every-loss (Or 2/3 as it is now) is either playing dumb, or perhaps simply dumb, end of story.

But then consistency clearly is not your strong point: earlier in the thread you were saying that you'd easily take on Dwarfs (as opposed to losing to Wood Elves), yet in your last post you say you can't beat any Dwarf army.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
194
#25
Actually, it's your lack of reading skills. 3 wins to a loss or 2 wins out of 3 losses (25% and 33%) aren't that far off. And it's probably right in between. Stating every army tears this one apart isn't what I said either, but as I've said a million times, I'm a wood elf player, I only bring this army out when I don't want to play my Wood Elf army (like when facing Beasts of Chaos, the hardest army to win against with my Army, or a Skryre army, or a large hoarde army). And I believe if you practice your reading skills, you'll see I said I'd be glad to pit this army against an Anvil army. Never boasted that I'd easily beat them. Anything else you wanna look like a complete fool about? Or are you finally done with trying to call me dumb? Have a nice day.
 
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