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500 pts list, this is a tricky one.

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
Hey there guys. Me and my mates have been doing a lot of 500 pts battle lately, mainly because I'm the only one with a full 2000 pts list painted and built. They've only got about 500 pts done.

Anyway, I've discovered that it is really hard to make a good VC 500 pts list. The ones that I've tried have not worked out that well... this is what I have been using:

Vampire
Lord of the dead, enchanted shield
120 pts

Skeletons 16 st
Full command
148 pts

Zombies 20 st
80 pts

Black Knights 5 st
Standard bearer standard of extra movement from 8th BRB (can't remember the name right now, it gives you 1'' extra movement on profile.)
151

and this one:

Vampire
Death knight
125 pts

Skeletons 19 st
Command
172 pts

Zombies 80 pts

Black Knights 5 st
120 pts

Any pointers or anything that can help me out here?

Cheers
 

artisturn

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
232
Have you considered using a Wright King as your General and bringing a Necromancer for magic support.


according to the FAQ we ignore page 88 in our army book and now use the 'Choosing your Army' rules in the new Rule Book (page 134)

So now the character with the highest leadership has to be the general. (BRB page 107 'The General')
 

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
So I don't have to use a Vampire at 500 pts?

Well I have not thought about that to be honest. I'm not up to speed with the new BRB... :/
 

RedDuke

Ghoul
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
109
Boo said:
Vampire
Lord of the dead, enchanted shield
120 pts

Beware we still pay 15 for the enchanted shield, so this character is over 25%

I would say it is very penalizing for us to play 500pt, as we atomatically lose the lord points allowance and cannot field any rare :/ Furthermore, as you said, putting up the list is a mess: the 25% core + at least three units + all the core we have that doesn't count as core + the pretty big minimum core units we have to field...

This is the best I came up with. I worked more on characters and just worked on infantry lists since you have very nice lists with Black Knights already.

* indicate alternatives!!

Vampire list (raise zombies if you can, to protect your flanks)

General
125

options:
*Thrall + Sword of swift slaying (good against elves)
*Thrall + Nightshroud + Ironcurse Icon (nice against fast chargers+warmachines combo, if possible with these points)
*Thrall + Charmed shield + Potion of strenght (Nice against chaos and dwarves)
*Thrall + Sword of might (@15) + Ironcurse Icon + Charmed shield (The best I can imagine against dwarves)
*Thrall + Biting Blade (@5) + Charmed Shield + Opal amulet (Allrounder with improved survivability)

Core

14 Skellies + champion and standard (general here)
128

Special

10 GG FC Royal banner of Strigos
185

3 fall bats (technically they are still infantry... Not just here to tank single models and WM. They can also be played difensively to flank-charge light flankers)
60
-----
498 pt


Wight king list (nice but tricky as you have no magic at all!!)

*Wight King + Gem of Blood + Sword of the kings (A classic, my favourite)
*Wight King + Hand of dust (Yes!)
125
*Wight King + extra weapon + Potion of strength + Dragonhelm + Luckstone (@116) or with Seed of rebirth (@121 if S6+ enemies on the pitch are expected)

Core

*33 zombies + banner
*15 skellies FC
140

5 dire wolves
40

Here, if you take the WK with the Luck stone you can have a skellie/two zombies more.
If you take the general with the Seed, instead, you can have a zombie more or the musician for the skellies.

Special

10 GG FC Banner of the Barrows (general here)
195
------------
500 or 499 pt

Necro List (the most delicate and tactical. You really need to raise a lot and be synergic)
55 + extra spell + sceptre de noirot + nightshroud
115

Core

14 Skellies + standard + gleaming pennant (general here)
125 (magic standard just to meet 25% core...)

1 CC
75

Special

10 GG FC Royal Banner of Strigos
185
-----------
500

I hope you may find them interesting! Good luck :thumbsup:
 

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
RedDuke said:
Boo said:
Vampire
Lord of the dead, enchanted shield
120 pts
Beware we still pay 15 for the enchanted shield, so this character is over 25%

I thought that the new 8th ed overruled that. Does it show that Im not that at home with the rules. :tongue:

Thank you for your advice Redduke! I appreciate that you took your time and wrote down all these lists! :) I'll try some of them out.

I quite like the all the lists you put up here.

My main opponent play Lizards with a really nasty list,
Scar vet with light armour and great wep
16 saurus FC
8 Skinks with javelins and shields
3 kroxigors.
:swear:
 

Wiggins

Ghoul
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
155
Why should a Wight King list have no magic at all, RedDuke?

Bound Items!

Either get a corpse cart into the list, or equip that wight king with one of the following;

The Hand of Dust (as you said, very tasty)

The Rod of Flaming Death (great against armies that are affected by panic, especially as you won't see many Battle Standards at 500 points)

The Ruby Ring of Ruin (which leaves enough points for another decent item)
 

RedDuke

Ghoul
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
109
Wiggins said:
Why should a Wight King list have no magic at all, RedDuke?

Yeah, I meant no raising :)

Ok, now I do not have my book with me and I may be wrong, but I used to play against lizzies a lot.
First of all, yes, it is probably the worst enemy you can face at 500 and jeez... those Kroxies...
Second, I think the list you posted sum up to 507, more or less. Furthermore, he has to resize his core units, as skinks come at least in units of 10.

I think the best option is to try to inflict the most attrition you can before entering close combat with his unit of saurus. And you can use magic for that as well. So, I would suggest the following list:

Necromancer, extra spell, ruby ring of ruin, sceptre de Noroit
120

17 ghoul + ghast (general here at start, leave unit when skinks are dead)
144

5 dire wolves
40

3 spirit hosts
195

499

Needless to say, the strategy would be to stay back and block march him with the spirit hosts. Only his main unit can hurt them, with a +3 bonus minus the wounds you may be able to inflict (0.66 a turn if I am not mistaken). And this only by giving flanks and rear to the charges of your ghouls.
On the contrary, if you flank charge him, you add +2 in that turn (even if you are not able to disrupt ranks anymore). So, the point is, everything that charges the hosts is lost for the whole game, so they can really disturb his manouvres.

Now, for the initial phase of the game, the unit that creates the most problems are clearly the skinks: with poisoned javelins they can really be nasty. Furthermore, the oblige you to keep the necro with the ghoul unit, while he would be better on his own. And here comes the Ruby ring and possibly a d6+9 units of zombies (consider the opponent now has to wipe them out to get the victory points and I am not even sure he gets them at all).
So, try to fire them down and, if needed, use the wolves to keep them at a distance (do not expose them too much or even worse charge the skinks directly, as a stand and shoot reaction can wipe them out).

Kroxies are great, but they tend to suffer flank charges from ranked units, even if they are zombies. He can score maximum 3 wounds against you, which means that you lose the first round by one in the worst case if you flankcharge with 10 zombies. And you are sure to raise 10 of them everytime.

Ideally, If you play well and everything goes according to the statistics, by turn four you should be able to flank/rear charge his core unit, already deprived of some models, with your ghouls at full strength.
With them without the necro, you make 16 attacks and you have nearly 3 wounds a round, this means that if you have some wolves surviving the skinks, you can throw them at the rear and hope they will not be obliterated, winning you another +2, +3 from the charge if it is the second round of combat.
More on this: personally, I would risk some crumbles from CR more as a result of a flank charge with weak units, as the more you charge them, the more fear test they have to take: if they fail one, your ghouls become godlike... :suck:
Now, I am not saying this will work, because it obviously depends a lot on the dice, but also a cavalry charge heavily depends on the rolls, and it is just one shot.
Now, with a little bit of luck, your general will be eating popcorns from a distance, watching his minions dragging enemies to hell.. priceless :devil2:
Good luck!
 

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
RedDuke said:
Second, I think the list you posted sum up to 507, more or less. Furthermore, he has to resize his core units, as skinks come at least in units of 10.

That was just posted from the top of my head, and now that you mention it he does have it at 10 man. :)

RedDuke said:
I think the best option is to try to inflict the most attrition you can before entering close combat with his unit of saurus. And you can use magic for that as well. So, I would suggest the following list:

Agreed.

RedDuke said:
List and tactics...

Yes, and a truly evil and inginious plan! The main problem is that I do now currently own any ghouls. :redface: But that is not hard to fix. ;) I will try out all of these lists and report back with what have worked out the best for me. But as I have done a little calculating and what not, the best course of action would be to have a Necro and raise as many zombies as I can.

RedDuke said:
Now, with a little bit of luck, your general will be eating popcorns from a distance, watching his minions dragging enemies to hell.. priceless :devil2:
Good luck!

Yes, priceless indeed! Muaha! :twisted:

Cheers for the reply and advice!
 

artisturn

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
232
now the biggest problem with the 500 point vampire list is that it has to have a minimum three units and wolves,bat swarms and corpse carts do not count toward toward the minimum (core units BRB page 134 )

All you would have to do is trade out the Dire Wolves for some Zombies in that nice list that RedDuke wrote.

And I agree Lizardmen can be a pain in the butt at such low level point games.
 

Wiggins

Ghoul
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
155
No, it doesn't need a minimum three core units anymore, just a minimum three units total, not including characters
 

RedDuke

Ghoul
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
109
You need minimum three units, of any type, and here you are: wolves count for that and are the cheapest possible unit.
You need at least 25% of core and ghouls already fill more than that.
Finally, you cannot substitute wolves with zombies because the smallest zombie unit consists of 20 models, aka 80 points.
 

artisturn

Grave Guard
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
232
RedDuke said:
You need minimum three units, of any type, and here you are: wolves count for that and are the cheapest possible unit.
You need at least 25% of core and ghouls already fill more than that.
Finally, you cannot substitute wolves with zombies because the smallest zombie unit consists of 20 models, aka 80 points.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but wolves don't count, (and sorry about the math error it was after way after midnight when I posted so the brain was on the fuzzy side)

From the rulebook Core Units page 134

Some Core units do not count toward the minimum points you must spend on Core units (sometimes written as 'do not count towards the minimum number of Core units you must include' or variations thereof) or indeed the minimum number of units you must include in your army.In fact,such units don't count towards any category,just the points value of the army.
 

Wiggins

Ghoul
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
155
So, in each case, we'll probably be aiming to replace 5 Dire Wolves with 3 Fell Bats, and finding 20 points to save somewhere else.

Here are my suggestions;


Wight King with Hand Weapon, Shield and the Hand of Dust
10 Grave Guard with Great Weapons, Full Command and War Banner
3 Fell Bats

12 Skeletons with Hand Weapon and Shield, Full Command and Banner of Hellfire
or
15 Crypt Ghouls, Ghast

496 points with Skeletons
498 points with Ghouls
 

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
artisturn said:
From the rulebook Core Units page 134

Some Core units do not count toward the minimum points you must spend on Core units (sometimes written as 'do not count towards the minimum number of Core units you must include' or variations thereof) or indeed the minimum number of units you must include in your army.In fact,such units don't count towards any category,just the points value of the army.

Indeed, that hurts. :/

Wiggins said:
Wight King with Hand Weapon, Shield and the Hand of Dust
10 Grave Guard with Great Weapons, Full Command and War Banner
3 Fell Bats

12 Skeletons with Hand Weapon and Shield, Full Command and Banner of Hellfire
or
15 Crypt Ghouls, Ghast

496 points with Skeletons
498 points with Ghouls

Another good list. The main issue here is the lack of magic. I feel that our infantry can't really stand on their own... My ideal list would have a Wight king in each unit, but we all know that wont happen until higher points. But I'll try this one out as well.

Thanks for all the help!
 

RedDuke

Ghoul
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
109
Ok, sorry for that! I think now we really need more flexibility in our core section...:silent::swear:
I still recommend the spirit hosts. The easiest tuning of the necro list is taking away the Sceptre and replacing the wolves with fell bats. Unfortunately, you are left with 6 spare points though...o.o
 

Wiggins

Ghoul
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
155
Thing is, the Hand of Dust gets much nastier when you're throwing 6 dice at it every one of your turns that the Wight King is in combat.

Yeah there's no bonuses to your magic defense, but it's 500 points, you can't have everything.
 

Wiggins

Ghoul
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
155
No, but like the Book of Arkhan it runs out if you roll a 1 afterwards. (And now also if you miscast with it).
 

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
I sat and thought about another list at work, this is what I came up with, a bit more... fun list one could say. Or boring ;)

Vampire
Dread Knight

Zombies 20 st 80 pts
Zombies 20 st 80 pts

Black knights 5 st 120 pts
FC (what is it, like 16+16+8?) a banner of barrows or hatred and barding at 4(?) pts per model?

:tongue:
 

Boo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
3,195
Just thought I would report back and tell you how I fared..

With this army:

Vampire
Dread Knight

Zombies 20 st 80 pts
Zombies 20 st 80 pts

Black knights 5 st 120 pts
FC (what is it, like 16+16+8?) a banner of barrows or hatred and barding


I won.

With this army, which is a modification of another suggested to me:

Necromancer, extra spell, ruby ring of ruin, sceptre de Noroit

10 Skeletons with FC

20 Zombies

3 spirit hosts

499


I lost badly due to a really bad magic phase..

So I just thought you would want to know. :)
 

Forge

Crypt Horror
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
583
I think your first list is very solid, magic is the way to go in a 500 point game imo for VC. you can still get 12 power dice possibly and cast IoN around 6-8 times making the projected point value on that skele unit enormous. Id say take a necro too but you really need the vamp for lord of the dead :vampire3:
 

Stacius

Ghoul
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
109
I have to agree with the people suggesting taking a Wight King. Nice to have a 3 wounder with killing blow as your general :zombie3:
 
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