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Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I know there are Necrons, which are said to be the 40K version of VC.

However to me they don't feel as if they are. So would anyone be interested in maybe designed a vampire / undead 40k army?
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Sounds interesting,

I don't know how you'd fit it into the 40k universe though in a way that wouldn't make it just look a bit out of place.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,275
Would you want a direct translation - literally vampires, skeletons, and zombies in space, ie dark elves to dark eldar - or a thematic translation - ie tomb kings to necrons?

I could see either working - the 40k universe is a big, big place after all. A direct translation could even have some half implied fluff (the kind that doesn't explain anything, but implies the possibility of several conflicting explanations - you know, like good 40k fluff in general) tying them to blood angels, possibly suggesting some link to the Blood Angels primarch.

A thematic translation, instead of having literal vampires in space, might rely on an equivalent sf trope - maybe a race of parasitic aliens that infect their victims, taking over their mind and preserving their bodies beyond death.

I'm not sure what space 40k vampires would occupy in the setting. Would they be corruptions/infections/cults hiddin in human (or other) societies, or would they instead be their own race existing on their own planets and having their own separate culture? The former probably makes more sense in 40k fluff, and is arguably more true to the vamp count inspiration, but leaves Space Vampires without their own fleets or controlled zones of space, two things that 40k factions really sort of need to make sense.

There is also some overlap issues. Zombies already exist in 40k fluff, as a disease spread by the nurgle factions.



Here's an idea. Tomb Kings have a direct link to Vamp counts in fluff and play style in Fantasy. Maybe we should use a similar link to the 40k equivalent of tomb kings? Necrons are the robotic remains of the Necrontyr, who worshipped the C'Tan Star-Eaters and warred with the old ones. Maybe we could find some corner of space where a splinter of the original Necrontyr race survives, The short lives of their rulers preserved by vampyric rituals, worshipping their own C'Tan god, one that somehow managed to learn to use the warp? C'Tan are normally completely divorced from the warp, from the source of magic - it's anathema to them. But perhaps one sought to overcome that weakness by somehow altering its fundamental nature, becoming a 40k equivalent of Nagash?

Or maybe the essence of a C'Tan was splintered into many parts and consumed by a clan of Necrontyr (atheistic rebels against the will of their gods?), becoming the first vampires, Able to use the warp because they aren't fully C'Tan themselves. Perhaps they went into hiding as the C'Tan did, and only now are returning to Re-establish their empire, or take revenge on the C'Tan who reduced their people to automatons?


Or maybe the return of the race of machine-men from the dark ages of human history. Similar to necrons in being a machine race (much as vamps and kings are similar in both being undead), but with more variety in the creatures rather then the necron's regimented uniformity. I'm thinking weird nightmare monstrosities out of the Matrix, possibly including borg-like cybernetic abominations, the machines absorbing living designs and minds into their network. The 'vampires' could be human-like cyborgs infected with a techno-virus, mentally directing the other creatures and serving as a hub for their network. Sort of a cross between necrons and tyranids.


Or maybe not, I don't know. Finding the fluff & setting space is the hard part, here. Once you have a solid concept and theme, coming up with the rules and units is the easy part.
 

Meier Lenk

Black Knight
Aug 29, 2008
320
manchester
in reply to mal, i would say that rather than have your necrontyr supporting some warp-capable c'tan, have them worshippers of chaos directly, but with some interesting quirks. the whole livign metal technology and gauss weaponry stuff could be re-tasked into something akin to a stargate-sarcophagus (regenerating decrepit vampires in this case: possibly make it a war machine like the black coach-vamp tank ftw lol) and a psychophagic weapon (the gauss variant literally tears the souls out of its victims, powering the regenerative abilities of the vamp-tank.

i think that being a half-way variant of necro-chaotics, flayed ones would be an awesome addition to the army as a 0-1 choice, but the standard infantry would be a mix of cultists (unarmoured, pistols and cc weapons), and better cultists equipped with necrodermis plating or somesuch-give them say a 4+ save as standard, and the psychophagic gauss flayer (loses the tank killing ability against all but deamonvehicles eg defiler, as they are the only ones with souls per se).

characters could have some sexier form of necrodermis (4+ invul?), cause the 40k version of fear, and have the options to take enhancements (biotechnology which imparts upon them some of the classic vampire powers) that make make them move as if they were cavalry, or a jetbike or somesuch (speed would have to be lower ofcourse otherwise itd be just OP).

fluff wise we might be able to justify a minor chaos deity specifically for these guys (seeing as the dark gods are form by a gestalt of sentient emotions as memory serves) who is, say, immune to instakill, middling to low stats for a higher order deamon, but with high initiative/asf/equivalent monstrous creature etc... and can gain 1 wound per wound inflicted up to its starting value which cant suffer instbility unless its more than 6 inches from an allied (its own army, not another allied players) unit.
 

TMS

Nostalgian
Staff member
True Blood
Nov 26, 2008
4,662
Sweden
While it might not be overly helpful, I've read a few complaints that the Blood Angels seem to becoming more and more vampiric in their appearance. :tongue:

Edit: I can't wait to see the chief librarian Mephiston in the next codex, standing proudly atop a rock formation, glittering in the sunlight...

:lol:
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
In the early 40K background they had beings known as Vampires. They where shape-shifting denizens of the warp that where super-adept at infiltrating civilisations. They would work their way into positions of power and then feed from the populace.
They where typically solitary creatures, but could hypnotize huge numbers to serve as slaves. Their 'normal' form looked like a kind of bipedal bat-creature, and they where apparently, very difficult to kill, as it took an entire terminator squad to kill one masquerading as a Planetary Governor.

One theory floating around the web right now is that these Vampires are also the 'Cythor Fiends' located in the Ghoul Stars that fought against the Black Templars. These creatures are also described as bat-like and very powerful.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,275
That is an excellent bit of esoteric fluff, there. From that we would have a 'what are vampires'.

The lack of a unique, army-wide identity that comes with the 'infiltrating societies' theme does come up, though. Space-Vampires that work by replacing and controlling members of another society aren't really an army of their own, but would instead constitute an alternate HQ option for an existing army* - probably guard but also potentially tau or eldar. That said, the possibility of assassin-like elite characters that reveal themselves from within enemy units during the game is pretty cool.

The ghoul stars bit can help, giving a location within which a unique faction can be placed, but it doesn't give a lot of clues as to what that faction would consist of (unless there's more to the ghoul-stars fluff then you've mentioned).

Warp-Vampires, as described, are mind-controllers, not necromancers, and not undead. I'm not sure whether we would want to re-fluff them slightly, or be content with a 'vampire' army that was not in itself an 'undead' army.




*on the other hand, this isn't necessarily a bad way to go. It's a lot easier to come up with a couple alternate HQs then it is to come up with an entire faction, and an alternate HQ can always 'count as' a regular HQ in the army, allowing the list to be fielded at official events sans house rules.
 

Ghouly

Liche
True Blood
Jan 15, 2008
5,517
Prince George
Hay DoN how much do you know about Necrons because they have alot in common with VC.

On another note the Blood Angels are almost vampires
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
The lack of a unique, army-wide identity that comes with the 'infiltrating societies' theme does come up, though
True, unless we consider the Cythor Fiends and these Vampires to be one in the same. The Cythor Fiends that the Black Templars encountered where quite numerous.

The ghoul stars bit can help, giving a location within which a unique faction can be placed, but it doesn't give a lot of clues as to what that faction would consist of (unless there's more to the ghoul-stars fluff then you've mentioned).
The Cythor Fiends are the only race listed as living in the Ghoul Stars, but I do have some info on them.
The Cythor Fiends where bipedal bat-like creatures that stood at about 7 feet tall and where winged.
What is assumed to be their home world was in perpetual darkness (reason not given) And the Fiends had evolved in the cluttered darkness.
They where noted by the Black Templars for being "Vicious, brutal, and deadly" and where equipped with advanced ranged weapons. The Fiends where lead by a totalitarian cast of leaders which thought nothing of sending in their underlings to be slaughtered.

This description is remarkably similar to that given in the old story about the Vampire. When his true form was shown, he looked like a large bat-creature with "Skin that took the shadows with it" when it walked. The Vampire was able to do some quite astounding feats, including passing its arm through a terminator and ripping out his heart, and then (with some difficulty) hypnotizing another one into attacking his comrades.

Warp-Vampires, as described, are mind-controllers, not necromancers, and not undead. I'm not sure whether we would want to re-fluff them slightly, or be content with a 'vampire' army that was not in itself an 'undead' army.
Their nature wasn't really described in detail. It was certainly no daemon, but it was stated to travel through the Warp and devour the souls of its victims (something vague was hinted about what happened to its prey after this was done, but it was never revealed..)

Hope this helps. :)
 
Hmmm. Perhaps have the Cythor Fiends as a 'base' for the army, eg the 'vampires' such as the one described by eric, and then their underlings as the less fortunate inhabitants of the world, so the same principal but no wings (maybe infiltration kind of rules) and then the 'zombies' as it were enslaved/mind controled inhabitants of nearby planets. These could be explained as settled during the early expantion of man, but were never rediscoverd until now.
Their alien technology can easily account for any ethereal kind of units. the hardest part will be getting coherant matching fluff.
 

Trevy the Great

Vampire Progenitor
True Blood
Mar 2, 2008
8,380
A place somewhere.
This is all sounding more and more Tyranid (or maybe I'm just biased). Tyranids do have brain-slugs that attatch to the brain stem and turn the host into a mindless zombie, and Genestealer Cults do infiltrate the highest levels of alien societies, assimilating their DNA to appear more normal. I'm sure cultists would have some sort of blood-drinking fetish to simulate the assimilation of host DNA.
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
The wings could easily be represented by just giving them Fleet.
I imagine a Fiends profile to be something like this:
Ws-4 BS-3 S-4 T-3 W-1 I-4 A-1 Ld-7/8

with a 4+/5+ armour save.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,275
But do we really want an army of all vampires? I mean, the charm to me of vamp counts in fantasy, and the reason I chose them over tomb kings, and the reason I'm not so keen on necrons in 40k, all comes down to variety.

A fantasy vamp counts army has a few cool vampires leading an army of skeletons, zombies, ghouls, and ghosts. Having an army of all vampires all the time, even if there were fancy lord vampires and lesser thrall vampires, would to me both dilute the coolness of the vampires and sacrifice all the fun variety.

I'm not saying a 40k version must have space zombies, space ghouls, and space skeletons, but whatever it does have should have the same kind of variety in it, and should maintain the coolness of vampires by keeping them as rarer HQ or Elite options, otherwise it will have lost the point of vamp counts in the transition.


All imo, of course.
 

Trevy the Great

Vampire Progenitor
True Blood
Mar 2, 2008
8,380
A place somewhere.
I saw a Tzeentch army a while ago that used Lost and the Damned rules to represent a horde of magically reanimated skeletons. Their weak shooting and average CC abilities fit perfectly with a skeleton sort of feel, and come to think of it, Thousand Sons would make killer Wights (Hellfire Rounds, Sorcerer Commands etc.).
 

Kaladas Harkon

Wight King
Jan 2, 2009
424
Vekarin the Dark Bladed said:
The Outsider makes his appearance.

Those who know what that means, kudos to you.
Those who don't, hit the books.

He's not Vampiric, he's just batshit insane.

You could go with an Enslavers theme, with the Enslavers themselves acting as Vampires and having the warp-controlled humans as Zombies. Just a thought.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Mar 9, 2008
4,034
Singapore
The C'tan are vaguely vampiric in the fluff, though they are most obviously C'thulu-esque/Lovecraftian. Therein lies the problem of using Necrons as Space VC. I can't think of any other list that really suits being the 40k version of VC* barring the phased out LatD rules but I hear the Servants of Decay list in IA7 is as close as it gets to the old LatD so there you have your best(and bloody expensive) option, IMO.

*Blood Angels: That might work for an all-vampire theme, but it can't simulate the fodder minion:vampire leader dynamic that VC have
Chaos: Same as above
IG: Zombies that shoot?!?!?!
 
Apr 24, 2009
182
Behind you!
I think using 'Cythor Fiends' would be fantastic. It provides an automatic enemy in the Black Templars, and fills the Ghoul Stars a little. It would avoid conflicts with previous armies (the Necrons at the forefront of my mind - breaching into new C'tan and 'Necrontyr that got away' just sits wrong with me as a Necron player), and could be really characterful.

Here's how I see it: There are two sentient races that live simultaneously on Cythor, a world in the Ghoul Stars cast into perpetual darkness. The first are the Fiends, bestial creatures that developed senses other than sight to let them function. The other are the Sprites, a wonderful, warp-attuned race. Their psychic powers allow them to move and live without light. These two races work together, in their own ways. They have formed a symbiotic society, and fight together too.

Whilst the Fiends are strong, tough and combat-oriented, they are incapable of mustering too many forces and are not completely intelligent. A stark contrast, the Sprites are weak, with limited combat ability, but quite intelligent and able to summon retinues of daemons to their side to fight in their stead or decimate their foes with flames or lightning.

Leadership is divided between Greater Fiends, a combat monster without any warp-abilities, or powerful psychic leaders. The latter are divided into the lower Cherubs and higher Sepharim (both biblical classifications of angels). In this, the nature of the vampire (the beastly warrior vs the aristocratic mage) is physically split between the two. Troops consist of a Sprite leading a pack of summoned daemons. These daemons are not allied to any Chaos god, but are ranked in various varieties (with different names but essentially zombies, skellies, ghouls, grave guard, ect.). Elites/Heavy Support/Fast Attack are comprised of a combination of Lesser Fiend squads (combat or possibly ranged?), elaborate Psychic constructs of the Sprites, squads of Sprite Elite with powerful psychic abilities or Fiend driven battle vehicles. One Heavy Support choice would be the Monstrous Creature that results when a Fiend and a Sprite merge into one body (heavy vampiric overtones).

I would love to develop an army like this. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? I've got plenty of time coming up pretty soon to develop ideas, and my background is in WH40K (Necrons) so I would love to do something like this. Is anyone else really interested?
 

doombunny666

Black Knight
Aug 8, 2009
397
UK
Lahmians-Lady vampires inifltrate the enemy army Etc..

Blood Dragons-Power Armoured, Power Sword wielders, optional Jump Packs

Nechs-Phsycers

Strigs-Basic troops?

Von Carstiens-Generals?

Any of that sound good

Just trying to translate the bloodlines a bit
 

Trevy the Great

Vampire Progenitor
True Blood
Mar 2, 2008
8,380
A place somewhere.
You could try to use a Daemonhunters army list to represent an Undead one;
Lahmians could be represented by Callidus assassins, undead by indentured guardsmen, Blood Dragons by Grey Knights etc.

My $.02 US.
 

Count Erick

Wight King
Dec 28, 2008
465
I'd just like to point out that in the original piece, the Cythor Fiends are noted as being very unfriendly and where also (at least before the black templars showed up) very numerous. They where described in ways that made me think of bat colonies, millions and millions of them living in vast complexes.

With this in mind, I dont really see the need for 'Sprites'. I think we might as well just combine the Cythor Fiends with the old Vampires, and perhaps give them bonuses that reflect the prey-items they have been masquerading as.
For example, a Fiend thats been hiding out as an Ork might have improved strength, while one thats been in an Eldar Craftworld would have advanced psychic powers.
 

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