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A vampire with blood knights

Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
40
#1
Gantzel, The Hellfire (pronounced Gaant-zel)
Equipment- Shield, Walach’s Bloody Hauberk, Lance.
Mount- Barbed Nightmare.
Powers- Infinite Hatred, Dread Knight.
Magic Level 1- Invocation of Nehek, Raise Dead.

Gantzel is a normal Vampire, and I was going to put him in charge of a group of Blood Knight's. I named him because I just love backstory, and in a army that relies so much on individuals, names just scream to be used. Back to game terms, would this be a good idea, grouping him with a Blood knights unit?
Also, the model will be based on Lancer from Fate/Stay Night.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,549
#2
The first thing is you don't get to pick your spells, you roll for them at the start of the game you can always swap one for spell 1 (well for now at least).

I wouldn't bother with the biting blade on the first vamp, the lance is better and if you have a magic weapon you have to use it. He would also have to be the BSB to be able to carry a banner.

Well I don't like the frost blade, too risky, it leaves your lord with a 4+ armour save I wouldn't like to be there if something gets to strike before him.
 

MasterSpark

Nostalgian
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
4,691
#3
Hello Sanctus,

In the future, please use the edit function to add whatever new information you wish to share instead of making double-posts. Thanks. ;)

I recall from reading elsewhere that you're a beginner when it comes to Warhammer. This is, of course, entirely fine but you seem to have gotten a few rules mixed up when creating your characters.

First up is your Vampire hero that you're planning for to join your Blood Knights - a character can only carry a magical banner if he's been designated as the army's Battle Standard Bearer. You can find the necessary information on this on page 91 of the VC army book, in one of the small text boxes on the page. What is especially important to note is that if a character chooses to carry a magical banner he may not have any other kind of magical equipment, even if the banner itself does not use up the normal 50 points allowance~

On your Lord, it appears that you've already gone ahead and selected which spells he'll get to use from the Lore of Vampires, but that is unfortunately not quite how it's done. Spells are determined randomly, with the character's Wizard Level indicating how many rolls he get to make from the Lore he has chosen. You can all on this on page 111 of the Warhammer rule book.

As for your original question, I believe that putting a character geared for offensive punch into a unit of Blood Knights is purely overkill - they'll demolish the opposition just as well without him! However, there is one particular magical weapon which has become a popular choice for running with a unit of Blood Knights, the weapon being the Blood Drinker sword. It allows the wielder to revive fallen (expensive!) Knights with every life he takes. When talking about powerful models such as Blood Knights that can be downright nasty! :vampire2:

Edit: Ninja'd by Ducky... damn my lengthy posts~
 
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
40
#4
Thanks for the heads up on those rules. I would like to make a Cavalry Leader and throw him into a unit of Blood Knights because as you say, it would be pure OVERKILL.
 
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
37
#6
Capt Rubber Ducky said:
The first thing is you don't get to pick your spells, you roll for them at the start of the game you can always swap one for spell 1 (well for now at least).
Don't want to confuse him with the rules, but technically he can choose his spells as he took the one every vampire gets and the rank 1 spell, so he wouldn't be rolling (we don't roll for spells if you opt to go for rank 1 anyway as it's just a waste of time really) so as long as they are default spells or rank 1 spells, putting them on an army list as abilities should be fine.

But like Capt said, if you aren't taking rank one spells, you roll at the start, so just make sure when you are picking spells, you don't opt for rank 2-6 as default.
 
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
280
#7
The problem with putting a 200 pt vampire in to use his lance is that your basic blood knight hits just as hard and is only 1 WS less, though if it's fluff you're after then fire away.

My Blood Knight Babysitter:

Vamp
Death Knight, Hate
Blood Drinker

He can throw up zombie screens/speed bumps and heals back knights.
 
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
85
#8
So if I were to put my lord who is currently:

Dread Lance / Crown of the Damned
Red Fury / Dread Knight / Walking Death

into a unit of Blood Knights it would be advisable to swap out the Dread Lance for the Blood-drinker and Walking Death for Infinite Hatred?

-- Ravenfeld
 

MasterSpark

Nostalgian
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
4,691
#9
That can be a very powerful combination Ravenfeld, if you can make sure that they hit the right kind of target. Your Lord won't be very happy if he's stuck trying to hack away at the armour of Chaos Knights, for example, where his S5 will be rather limiting. The Blood Drinker really works the best in a death star setup, which is usually a slightly larger unit of Blood Knights (6~7) with The Drakenhof Banner in there somewhere and as much static combat resolution as you can fit in (Walking Death, Battle Standard, possibly the War Banner etc.). Every wound caused by the Blood Drinker will bring a very expensive, dangerous and hard-to-kill model back on the field without having to expend any magic on doing it. That's going to be a huge amount of points placed into a single entity though~
 
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
85
#10
Thats the problem as I see it, and somehow it also seems kind of cheesy, though theme wise it makes perfect sense to have your mounted death machine with the other mounted death machines! I dunno if I would do it or not, 500+ points for the BK's, another 200 for the BSB, and 450 for the lord, that is 50% of my army tied up in one unit, maybe ill try it one day, but I don't think I will right this second!

Thanks for the input!

-- Ravenfeld
 

Dklyn

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
550
#11
Masterspark, wouldn't your build (with regen banner AND blood drinker) require at least two heros in the unit, one for BSB and one for blood drinker? Unless I'm missing something (don't have my book in front of me so I could be missing something), your statement of it being a point sink is grossly understated
 

Trevy the Great

Vampire Progenitor
True Blood
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
8,386
#12
It would require two heroes, Dklyn, but from what I have heard it is one of the most powerful combinations available to Vampires. It makes for a nearly unkillable unit (2+ save, 4+ regeneration), and all those failed saves can be healed by the Blood Drinker alone, as well as the magic of two vampires inside it.
Other combinations that I've used were swapping the Battle Standard Bearer Vampire for a Wight King version, and swapping his Drakenhof Banner for the Banner of Blood Keep. Not only does this cut the points by about 75, but also increases the units survivability slightly. With all of those flaming attacks going around (arguable because of the Drakenhof Banner, the Banner becomes a very expensive wall hanging a lot of the time. The Banner of Blood Keep will not help in Close Combat, but you're guaranteed that save before you get there.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,916
#14
Yes you can do, but that is a lot of points. Personally I would look at giving the Blood Knight Standard the Royal Banner of Strigos. The re-rolls to hit really pay off considering the amount of attacks they have, and their strength. Providing they get the charge, they can feasibly destroy 90% of the units out there with that banner. Plus there is no downside as they are already frenzied.
 

Randar

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
290
#15
for same points you could field a massive black knights multi ranked unit ! but i think your fluff thing rules! 5 knights bsb vamp and vamp + blood drinker with infinite hatred would be scary lol!xD
 
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
68
#16
Disciple of Nagash said:
Yes you can do, but that is a lot of points. Personally I would look at giving the Blood Knight Standard the Royal Banner of Strigos. The re-rolls to hit really pay off considering the amount of attacks they have, and their strength. Providing they get the charge, they can feasibly destroy 90% of the units out there with that banner. Plus there is no downside as they are already frenzied.

i agree

i think 5 blood knights with Standard of strigos because it also affects the horses attacks which are also furious.

so 10 ws 3 strenght 4 attacks with Eternal Hatred + the horsemen attacks... It's a powerfull unit with a high-but-not-totally-mad price.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
103
#17
maybe with massive ranked up infantry in 8th + with them being stubborn maybe a vamp in the unit wouldnt be so bad! also, if its true that frenzied units can restrain the charge with a ld test!
 
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
85
#18
I have been really mulling over the fluff for my army and I have decided that I want to have a potent cavalry force in my army and I think the Blood Knights might be how to do it. The only problem I am having is my point limit. At 2250 I can't field everything I want, not for the life of me, so what do you guys think is the best army build to harbor a BK unit... the fact that you have to tailor your whole army to a BK unit is scary actually. I was also thinking I could take the cheap route and just field two units of Black Knights, ok they aren't anywhere near as gross but I could have one ignore terrain unit and one unit to charge around with my hero in it.. could give my Wight King to the mobile unit and my vamp lord to the other? Thoughts?

-- Ravenfeld
 
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