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Unas the slayer

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Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
1,415
Northern Italy
this thread has been made to discuss all the news related to AoS.
Not only related to undead, but kinda like everything you'd like: rules, rumors, update to armies, points changes and so on...
 

Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
1,415
Northern Italy
...and after the news, my considerations:

Am I the only one who doesn't like this intentional "change the core gameplay every six months" approach gw is taking?

I know *why* they're doing it (change the meta, make people buy new models), but it seems so blatant that instead of thinking "cool, a new way to play!" I'm feeling more like "oh great, return of the horde meta. Too bad it won't last long..."
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,330
The summary image is mistaken about the formations. According to Warcom the 'count as 3 models for objectives' formation is for infantry battleline with less than 5 wound characteristic, just like the fight in 2 ranks, not 5 or more. Zombie hordes will be positively nightmarish.

The other formation is for beating up on these infantry hordes.

....

Personally I don't mind the change up. Keeps the game fresh, lets them test out new rules that might make it into core in the future, etc.

1 ghb & 1 narrative campaign a year seems to be the pace they're aiming for. That feels pretty good to me, though I hope future campaign books are a bit more eventful than Thondia was.
 
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The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,399
Copenhagen
I absolutely love the new changes and my god will Nighthaunt become a terror with these new rules! Bladegheists fightin two ranks is bonkers.

I love the seasonal changes. Keeps old books fresh and shakes up the meta.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,330
Note that Bladegheists will only fight in two ranks in the Crimson Doom procession, as the rule only applies to battleline. So it's a big boon to bladegheists in crimson doom and dreadscythes in quicksilver dead. Not as much of a boon for grieving legion or emerald host, though, as the rule would really only apply to spirit hosts (not really combatants), chainrasps (can already fight in two ranks due to small bases) and grimghasts (can already fight in two ranks thanks to reach). the formation to count as extra models will certainly help those processions in claiming objectives, though.

The big winners for nighthaunt really do seem to be crimson doom. Good for people who want to spam bladegheists over and over again. Personally I prefer a variety of units for purely aesthetic reasons, but if you had to spam one nighthaunt unit the bladegheists are the coolest looking & most dynamic. And red nighthaunts painted like swirls of splashing blood do look quite striking. GW should be able to move some extra 'blood for the blood god' at least.

For vamp counts, all of their relevant units can already attack in two ranks due to being small, though zombies counting as 3 models to claim objectives sounds impressive. As a loose sketch, maybe something like: Volga, Manfred, vamp lord, necromancer, 60 zombies, 40 zombies, 40 zombies, 5 blood knights, 10 dire wolves? Actually, wait, dire wolves can qualify as fancy vets, and actually do meaningfully benefit from fighting in two ranks now that their minimum squad size is 10. Maybe some sort of volga led vyrkos list with a couple units of 20 or even 30 dire wolves?

FEC... I don't know. ghouls can already attack in two ranks, horrors are bad regardless, and flayers afaik tend to run in 3s. Maybe reinforced flayer units could be a thing? And summoned units aren't part of battalions, either, so all the ghouls that archregents can bring to the table don't care about the formation bonus.

OBR... the formation to count as extra models is great for morteks, but they already fight in two ranks due to being adorably tiny, so that change mostly just means the things they fight are going to get more attacks back at them. Their only other battleline is cavalry, so unless we get a book or update in the next 12 months that makes stalkers battleline, this shouldn't be a particularly big game changer for them.


Yeah, my first reaction was that this would be a huge deal for death, but actually looking at the units it could apply to, taking account existing reach and base sizes, it seems the only undead armies that the previewed rules make a big difference for are Crimson Doom and Quicksilver Dead. I think in general this is going to turn out to be a bigger boon for our opponents.
 
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The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,399
Copenhagen
Good thing I haven't bought the 30 Grimghast Reapers I was planning... now it is going to be Scarlet Doom all the way! 3 units of 20 are going to be brutal. Thankfully the Bladegheists are also some absolutely stunning models. 🤩
 

Grave Tacticus

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Jul 26, 2020
244
Utah
I wonder by what arbitrary standard the Mortisan Soulreaper is judged internally, in that the other, better, Mortisans have now been discounted down to his level. The only reason to take the Soulreaper was because of its low point cost that filled in the odd list gap, but now... Maybe I'll be able to squeeze in a Boneshaper and a Soulmason. Poor, poor Soulreaper.
 
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Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
1,415
Northern Italy
Good news for us in the new Battlescroll!

Flesh Eater Courts: now always have 6+ ward.

Ossiarch Bonereapers: get Necropolis Stalkers as Battleline if Mortisan is general.

That's good.
It's sad that we have a death grand allegiance, but only one "main" faction (soulblight) while the other armies fall behind.
I understand why, but still it's not that great.
 

Grave Tacticus

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 26, 2020
244
Utah
Vampire Counts/Soulblight were in dire need of an update not too long ago.

I like that Mortisan generals make our Necropolis Stalkers/Immortis Guard battleline. I've always leaned on the side of magic users myself, and it's nice to get a perk for doing what I like. Sure, the new GH would make our big boys GALLETIAN VETERANS as battleline, and give them access to fighting in two ranks, but GALLETIAN VETERANS hunters exist now too.
 

Ravinsild

Zombie
Jun 1, 2022
18
With the coming of Galletian Veterans as well as the coming of Bounty Hunter’s do we have any idea which battleline to take for Soulblight Gravelords that won’t just get deleted instantly?

I’ve heard reports of blocks of 40 zombies evaporating under bounty hunters in a single round.
 

The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,399
Copenhagen
With the coming of Galletian Veterans as well as the coming of Bounty Hunter’s do we have any idea which battleline to take for Soulblight Gravelords that won’t just get deleted instantly?

I’ve heard reports of blocks of 40 zombies evaporating under bounty hunters in a single round.
I would take everything with a huge grain of salt for the time being, everybody and their mother has an opinion on what the new meta is. Lets see.

Screens are important as always and Fell Bats might be even better now, but just play some games and get some experience with it. :)
 

Ravinsild

Zombie
Jun 1, 2022
18
I would take everything with a huge grain of salt for the time being, everybody and their mother has an opinion on what the new meta is. Lets see.

Screens are important as always and Fell Bats might be even better now, but just play some games and get some experience with it. :)
I’ve been looking for people to play with on Tabeltop Simulator since my real life collection of models is literally: VLOZD.
 
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eatU4myT

Skeleton
Feb 8, 2022
51
Fair comment that it is early days, but I do feel it's the end of the line for zombie horde lists. As Ravinsild says, they are just going to evaporate as soon as anyone targets them. I reckon Kastelai lists with 3 x 10 Blood Knights as battleline in a Bounty Hunter battalion is going to be strong. Avengorii with 3 x Zombie Dragons in a Bounty Hunter battalion could have possibilities too. Graveguard will also love the Bounty Hunter battalion, though I can't ever get Graveguard to work - I'm not good enough to get them up the table before they get shot to bits!

Got to say, I think the rules miss their intended aim - I think this GHB is going to be all about bringing horde-killing units to the table, rather than hordes, on the grounds that you don't need to beat 120 models on an objective if you can kill them in 1-2 rounds. I think Sons of Behemat will get back on the table a lot. Gargants in bounty hunter battalions looks a good choice, and mega-gargants have always been excellent at killing hordes anyway.

There are going to be some armies out there where that isn't true of course, where this is going to be a huge boon. Phoenix Guard come to mind - counting 3x on objectives and with their innate unwillingness to die, they will be a strong choice. I imagine that Nighthaunt will have some strong contenders too!
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,330
Flat 6+ deatn ward w/o characters nearby is a good change for FEC, was a good change to NH, and would be a good change for SG and OBR. Measuring range for death saves was always more hassle than it was worth.

Battleline stalkers/guard if mortisan general is in principle a good change for build variety, everything is so expensive for OBR that it's hard to fit anything after battleline & leaders are covered. Much easier for stalkers/guard to argue a spot in place of a unit of morteks or deathriders rather than having to compete with crawlers, harvesters, & harbingers.

But it doesn't solve the fundamenral problem that OBR are still stuck in 2.5 while the rest of the game has moved on to the second year of 3rd edition. Only a new battletome can fix that.
 

eatU4myT

Skeleton
Feb 8, 2022
51
Yeah, I had mis-read the "Bonds of Battle" rule, not noticed it didn't apply to cavalry. I was excited about the possibility of getting more than about 4 knights into combat range...!
 

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