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Bat Swarms do you use them?

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#26
N.I.B. said:
Well boo-fecking-hoo. Your expensive unit is almost useless. Know what, it happens to us all in transition between editions and army books, get over it. I have 6 Bat Swarms gathering dust on a shelf, and I don't care. I have an extra converted Black Coach that I can't use, converted Levy that I can't use, 35 extra Dire Wolves that I don't need, all since GW banned SoC armies in tournaments.

GW can't do point revisions for swarms in the basic rules, of course. Issues like these will be adressed in army books, if adressed at all.

Expensive units that are meant to be legal for what 5-6 years between army books, not a campaign list, which you can still play against friends, so the mini's are not useless at all.
The swarms whilst legal however, are completely useless against anyone. And you reminded me about the other nerf that of skirmishers no longer marching when blocked, so that I agree with, that would have made swarms IMO lose a lot of potential without the crumble rule being added.
I'm hoping the new book addresses the issue because more than anything else, they are great minis (bats that is) add great comedy value to the table!
 
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#27
This topic reminded me that I still have a blister of bat swarms lying around, and with how the new edition made them no longer a viable option, I thought about taking them back into GW and swapping them over for something else.

That is, until I dug out the blister just before and found that the plastic seal has come away from the carboard backing. I still could probably try my luck and see if they would swap it over, but not worth the hassle.

So I'm going to hold onto them for now, wait for the new book to come out, and if their pts are lowered or something and they start to be more viable, I'll grab a couple more blisters and go with them. And if after the new book release, they are still not viable, well then, I think there will be a few more characters and heavy cav etc in my army running around with the odd bat or two attached to the bases! :grin:
 

Lord Fear

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#28
N.I.B. said:
Well boo-fecking-hoo. Your expensive unit is almost useless. Know what, it happens to us all in transition between editions and army books, get over it. I have 6 Bat Swarms gathering dust on a shelf, and I don't care. I have an extra converted Black Coach that I can't use, converted Levy that I can't use, 35 extra Dire Wolves that I don't need, all since GW banned SoC armies in tournaments.
Well, that is actually the basic point, that they might as well have just deleted swarms entirely like SoC armies- but at least Swarms were playtested in 6th edition. I don't really see why you're so against the idea that swarms should have still been allowed to be viable in some way, you must have lost a lot of games in 6th edition due to swarms!
 
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#29
EvC said:
I don't really see why you're so against the idea that swarms should have still been allowed to be viable in some way, you must have lost a lot of games in 6th edition due to swarms!
Exactly what I'm thinking but is N.I.B not a VC player as well, do you not want to have the swarm option?
 

N.I.B

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#30
I'm almost exclusively a VC player since 5 years back. I lost very few games due to Rat Swarms, but perhaps one or two, and probably many games were draws or just minor victories due to them. Rat Swarms were the best unit in the Skaven army.
I rarely used Bat Swarms in my own lists, so I don't grieve the loss of them (I think of them as gone since 7th ed). Almost every army have their sub-par unit choices, it just happens that Bat Swarms are currently the worst in the game. BUT - on the whole, looking at the meta-game and relative power levels, in other words the tournament perspective - VC gained on the nerf of Swarms, which I don't think too many here have realized. So I'm glad for that, and you should be too ;)

Perhaps Bat Swarms are gone/changed or costed down in the new book, who knows? VC doesn't really need another tar-pit unit, I really hope that they do something to diversify them if they stay.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#31
:lol:
N.I.B. said:
Perhaps Bat Swarms are gone/changed or costed down in the new book, who knows? VC doesn't really need another tar-pit unit, I really hope that they do something to diversify them if they stay.
Undead without the flapping of tiny leathery wings in the background :( - perish the thought!! :lol:
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#33
The issue is with US of 1, S and T of 2, they are not desperately useful once they get to the war-machine, unless you are looking to tie it up for a few turns. Also, with a move of only 10, they are slow getting there.
 
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#34
I think that qualifies as 'some small use'. They are core and a single base is a 'cheap' unit that provides some threat. Their biggest advantage is their small size and low profile, so they can lurk from cover to cover.
 

FatOlaf

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#35
ArchMagosAlchemys said:
I think that qualifies as 'some small use'. They are core and a single base is a 'cheap' unit that provides some threat. Their biggest advantage is their small size and low profile, so they can lurk from cover to cover.

They would be better if they dropped points and could fly their 10" through woods? That would be great in fact, then I would accept the crumble rule...
 

N.I.B

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#36
I could still see a use for Bat Swarms on flanks. Viable against enemy fast cavalry.
 

Lord Fear

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#37
I have found uses for Banshees against armies that are entirely immune to pyschology, but that doesn't meant it's a good thing, or anywhere close to being so! :D
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#38
I am not saying that they are completely useless, and can be used to march block, tie up or deflect attacks (eg 60 point sacrifice to take chosen Khornites out for a couple of turns is not an unreasonable cost), but overall, overpriced for what they can now do.
 

FatOlaf

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#40
Skaramak von Carstein said:
I am not saying that they are completely useless, and can be used to march block, tie up or defkect attacks (eg 60 point sacrifice to take chosem Khornites out for a couple of turns is not an unreasonable cost), but overall, overpriced for what they can now do.

A couple of turns, you'd be lucky against chosen, better use of points to hold them up for a couple of turns...
 

Lord Fear

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#41
And again, remember that Bat Swarms are skirmishers. You may think you're being smart by whacking them in front of his Chosen Knights at a dodgy angle, but your bats will align how he wants them to, and he will go off overunning in the direction of his choice.

Far superior - and cheaper - would be a unit of Dire Wolves. There is almost nothing that a Bat Swarm can do that Dire Wolves cannot.
 
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#42
I think bat swarms are quite expensive for the uses I would give them... I prefer wolves or hosts. But I have to admit that they look nice because it´s part of the army background (a vampire army without a swarm of bats behind??? so what more????)
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#43
FatOlaf said:
A couple of turns, you'd be lucky against chosen, better use of points to hold them up for a couple of turns...
I had not anticipated them lasting that long, merely forcing the charge by careful positioning (your point is a good one, EVC, requiring placement at the edge of the LoS, not merely angled for the reason given). Ideally placement will be at or near maximum charge distance). They will wipe out the bats, overrun, and then take a turn or more to get back into position.

I am not saying that this would be the ideal use for the bats (and agree that a unit of 5 wolves are better), but is a use.
 

FatOlaf

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#44
Skaramak von Carstein said:
I am not saying that this would be the ideal use for the bats (and agree that a unit of 5 wolves are better), but is a use.
And so is being a dust trap like my minis are doing at the moment! :mrgreen:
 
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#46
Yes, I would much rather have Dire Wolves > Bat Swarms the Bat Swarms are far too over priced i hope that this changes when our 7th edition army book is released do you guys think that they will be keeping them?
 
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#47
I really think it could go either way.

Either they will be gone completely, or they will be given some new sort of bonus/stat/ability to make them viable again, or they will be given a pts reduction and kept as they are.

I haven't paid a huge amount of attention to the other post 7th ed army books releases, being as though I only play VC. What has been the trend so far? Has anything similiar occurred or been addressed in the other army book releases?
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#48
Not that I have noticed. The trend has been to focus more on core units in blocks, and so GW have reduced the cost in many cases to encourage this.
 
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