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Beastemen question ; Blood and Glory + Despoiler

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,461
#1
This arose over at the Herdstone;

Battle 4: blood and glory.

"fortitude: Any armys fortitude is equal to the current number of standards in the army..."

Bestigor.
Despoilers: "...the bestigors automatically seize any banner the unit had."
...and I cannot find anything which forbids it(or any reason why I'd deny them this).

The first arguement against I saw was "Banners aren't standards" but then anyone who's played warhammer for more than a few games knows these are interchangable and it doesn't really matter if it says standard/banner. The second arguement is that it is just a captured standard but the despoiler rule changes this as it specifically says it seizes and gets "the bonuses for it", ie, +1 CR and so on.

In a fluffy note it is pretty cool and fits within the special rule.

Why am I posting it here, well I know where I stand, but it be nice to see how you guys view it.

Cheers
 

Yanda

Black Knight
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
376
#2
I think the Beastigors should pickup the banner/standard as the unit rule specifies and give them a +1 CR in future combats unless they flee. However this does not mean that they get additional points when determining scenarios like Blood and Glory. It says no-where in there codex that these banners count as additional points in Blood and Glory and therefore shouldnt. They can try to Rules lawyer it all they want over at the herdstone but there wrong.
 

Coyote

Black Knight
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
319
#4
Yeah, I think it's worth a chat at the start of a Blood & Glory match. Maybe a dice-off if things get sticky. But if they don't bring it up by the end of the first turn, they're SOL in my book.
 

Ophidicus

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
1,039
#5
There's a factor missing here, units don't capture standards any more, the rules for Seized Standards (WFB p.143) only apply in Victory Point scenarios. The days of units running around with your opponent's models are gone, now if you kill a Standard Bearer in combat you get victory points. There's no Capture/Recapture.

Therefore a normal unit would never gain Fortitude points for 'capturing standards' as that doesn't happen.

Bestigors gain a bonus to Combat Resolution for seizing standards, on top of the 25VP bonus (should the scenario use VPs), but no other benefits. Note that the first sentence of the Despoilers special rule is the normal rules in 8th edition.

It is, however, implied by the wording of Despoilers that they do actually possess these captured banners, in the form of 'banner tokens', therefore unlike normal seized standards, they do actually remain with the army as it appears on the tabletop, so I would say that Beastmen alone do indeed gain a Fortitude bonus from Bestigors' captured banners.

Incidentally Danceman, you're absolutely right, "Banners aren't standards" is a non-argument, and for proof one need look no further than the WFB & Beastmen Army Book's respective Magic Items sections ;)
 

Humaneater

Black Knight
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
395
#6
Ophidicus said:
Incidentally Danceman, you're absolutely right, "Banners aren't standards" is a non-argument, and for proof one need look no further than the WFB & Beastmen Army Book's respective Magic Items sections ;)
One says Banners and one says Standards, correct?
 
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