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BK without barding?

Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#1
So I'm converting my Undead Legions list back into a Vampire Counts list after my big tournament in February decided to go back on allowing them. Argh. I'd been running horsemen with a 4+ save to house my two vampires, and getting around their low T/save by running them 3 wide. Was really liking how this worked out.

Now that they've become black knights I'm really considering the efficacy of not paying for barding on them. It's nearly 40 points for my unit of 13, and would cost me a point of movement. With the Banner of Swiftness that bus becomes M9, and marches 18" a turn.

Has anybody tried this? What was the outcome? I'm thinking if I'm only 3-wide the save won't matter as much in combat, and against shooting it shouldn't make a huuuuge difference as the scariest stuff bypasses saves anyways. I can also screen the unit with dogs and vargheists BS-based shooting.


Edit: for clarity that bus is going to have two vampire lords in it. So CR isn't really a concern on the size...the bus' sole purpose is LoS! and ablative wounds.

Also because vampires will be in the unit they'll lose the ethereal movement that removes the barding penalty. Thus the argument for not having the barding (vampires are on hellsteeds, so M8 as well).
 
Last edited:

hairyjeff

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
583
#2
Hang on a mo….. the Black Knights don't lose the movement from barding, but from the Vamps being mounted on non-ethereal Nightmares. Unless this has been FAQed while I wasn't looking. That's why I have stopped putting my vamps in a BK bus- the ethereal movement is often too useful.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#3
Hang on a mo….. the Black Knights don't lose the movement from barding, but from the Vamps being mounted on non-ethereal Nightmares. Unless this has been FAQed while I wasn't looking. That's why I have stopped putting my vamps in a BK bus- the ethereal movement is often too useful.
The ethereal movement and immunity to the barding movement penalty are both benefits of the same rule. My vampires are on hellsteeds, so it's not their mounts slowing the unit but the simple fact that they're in the unit period, taking away the ethereal movement rule that removes the movement penalty.

Thus (unless I'm mistaken) the only way to get a base M8 BK bus (that can become M9 with the movement banner) is to drop the barding or keep vampires out of the unit.
 

hairyjeff

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
583
#6
How I read it is this…. ethereal(skeletal) steeds have 1)ethereal movement and 2) aren't penalised for barding.If the unit is joined by a non-ethereal, they lose 1) the ethereal movement. I don't see that this affects the ability to wear barding. They are still ethereal, can only be hit with magic, but the 'solid' character can't get through obstacles. As soon as characters leave, the unit has ethereal movement again, so they haven't lost their ability, just had an awkward 'solid' character spoil their movement .No one else has ever questioned me on this, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
4
#7
Re-read the spectral steeds rule. It grants them both the ability to move as if they were ethereal (note that black knights are not actually ethereal, so they are not immune to non-magic attacks), and the ability to ignore barding movement penalties. It also states that if they are joined by a character that is not ethereal or does not have the spectral steeds rule, they lose the spectral steeds rule, and thus both benefits.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#9
Cool, that's what I thought.

So...um...does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'm running the unit 3-wide like I did with my UL horsemen bus, so combat fragility isn't a huge concern. Just shooting mostly. I'm afraid that 13 is too small, or that M9 might not be worth it. Gunna have to playtest and see I guess.

Played a game the other day where M9 would have let my bus escape KFA, but M8 was just a little too short. Luckily my vampires butchered him before he could strike, but I rolled well and wouldn't put stock in it happening again.
 
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