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Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
So one of the rare choices in the list was Shards of the Black Pyramid. I couldn't see Nagash having actual shards, but I could see him making miniature versions, especially considering how effect his pyramid was. So here is my idea:

The Black Shards – 275pts – 1 per 2000pts
Fashioned out of solid obsidian, this powerful objects are miniature versions of the Black Pyramid that still stands in Nehekhara. Knowing how reliant his armies were on magic Nagash created these to sustain his forces to matter how fitfully the winds of magic blow

Shard….M * / WS - / BS - / S - / T 7 / W 5 / I - / A - / Ld –
Guardian M 4 / WS 4 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 4 / W 1 / I 2 / A 1 / Ld 7
*See Inanimate special rule

Equipment
The Guardians are equipped with Full Plate Armour, Shields and Handweapons

Special Rules
Undead (Guardians only)
Wight Blades (Guardians only)

Inanimate Object
The Shard is only an enchanted object and thus is completely Unbreakable, and cannot be affected by any objects / spells / rules that affect psychology etc. The Shard can only be moved in battle using the below Levitation spell. Any enemies in BtB contact with the shard automatically hit it, no roll to hit is required.
It has 5 guardians who rank up in front of the shard. They will move to protect the shard at all times, therefore unless the Guardians are already engaged in combat any charges are counted as charging to the front of the unit. Move the Guardians to the relevant unit side.
The Guardians can never leave the Shard, and the combined unit can never charge, not even if affected by spells that would force them to. The power of the Shard protects them against such influences.
The Shard also counts as have 2 ranks, therefore with its Guardians the whole unit has a total of 3 ranks

Nexus
The Shard draws necromantic magic into itself, fuelling the undead nearby and making them nigh on unstoppable. Those alive who follow the rule of Nagash are also reminded of his power, urging them onto to greater feats of bloodshed
The Guardians have a 4+ ward save and the ASF rule.

Any Nagashi with 12” of the Shard at the start of the Legion’s turn automatically rally if fleeing. Otherwise they are entirely immune to fear whilst under the Shard’s effects.

During the magic phase the Shard may cast the Great Awakening from the Lore of Nagash was a bound spell. The power level is determined by rolling 2D6.

Magical Source
The additional power provided by the Shard empowers Liches and Priests if Nagash, giving them the strength to overpower their enemy
Whilst the Shard is still in play, any enemy dispelling attempts are at -1.

Levitation
The shard is slowly lifted off the ground by swirling dark magic and glides forward its guardians following in its wake
Bound Spell. Power 5. The whole unit may march move at the Guardians movement rate as per the BRB. This movement does not allow the unit to charge.

Catastrophic Power
Filled with such immense energy, destroying the Shard can prove to me just as deadly as letting it continue it’s nefarious work
If the Shard is destroyed roll D6 +4. All units within this range suffer S5 hit on every model. This hit also counts as having the Killing Blow special rule.

Comments?
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
I like it, it looks quite powerful but then it is a lot of points. Does it raise its own guardians back? I think the catastrophic power is fine as it effects both sides, but the inability to move my be a problem if the army needs to advance forwards as it won't affect much especially against an army that will stand back and shoot e.g a dwarth gunline.

You could give it a bound spell that allows it to move during the magic phase.
Name? Power level 3,
The shard is slowly lifted off the ground by swirling dark magic and glides forward its guardians following in its wake.
If cast it allows the shard to move up to 8"
 
I like this idea a lot. It provides a good magic boost to the army. However, I'm not sure on 2 points.
1) The Frozen rule. I don't like the idea for this, its ment to be a magical locus, not a WMD. Also depending on the size of the shard, it could be in btb contact with entire units - or at least if the shard is as big as I imagine it.
2) I think that D3 is to small a number for the Nexus rule.
With the shard as it is, I would actually get it and delibrately send it into the middle of the enemy army, hoping to have it kill as many enemies as pos with the Frozen, then get it destroyed and blow half their army to kingdom come.
And that is not how I see this being used at all. I'd rather think of it as a locus for the magical energies, so I would make the following changes:

Nexus
The Shard draws necromantic magic into itself, invigorating nearby undead. Tendrils of dark power play around it, lancing out to raise up destroyed corpses and shatterd skeletons. Those depraved cultists who follow the rule of Nagash are also reminded of his power, urging them onto to greater feats of bloodshed
The Guardians are immune to the Crumbling rule, have a 4+ ward save and the ASF rule.
Any undead units with 12” of the Shard at the at the start of the Legion’s turn may automatically heal the following number of wounds:

Core: D6+1 wounds
Special: D3+1 wounds
Rare: 1 wound
Characters: 1 wound
Monsters (inc mounts): 1 wound

Any Nagashi with 12” of the Shard at the start of the Legion’s turn automatically rally if fleeing. Otherwise they are entirely immune to fear whilst under the Shard’s effects.

I have changed both the rules to make it more effective, and the fluff because, well, i like writing fluff. :D

Additionaly to this, I would remove the frozen rule entirely.
I would also add the rule Capt rubber Ducky came up with.

With those changes, it would perhaps be more like 280-300pts.
I look forward to your opinions.
 

Trentonator

Crypt Horror
Dec 1, 2007
598
Woah, Woah, Woah. People, think for a second... This thing is WAY over the top! It's hard enough to get past a 2+ armour save and a 4+ ward save of the guards and then toughness 7 to kill it.

For the points, you're basically making 5 ironbreakers, our 4+ ward banner but better, DE ASF banner, and KB, balefire attachment, SUPER invocation, Immunity to Fear and auto-rallying, that old HoC item, and an explosion.

so I'd say more around 450-500 points and one per 2000pts.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
I agree with what Marcus said apart from the number of wounds regained, i think they where fine as the where becuse its automatic so your opponant can't stop it and its all friendly undead withing 12".
The frozen rule should be dropped i think because if you try and break something you don't touch it with your hands much (you get a hammer).
Trentonator i think your wrong about the points, the guards may be tough but theres only 5 of them and they can only guard the shard they can't run off and attack anything.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok based on the discussions I agree on the Bound spell allowing it to move. I will also agree on the the frozen rule been dropped. However I disagree with with Marcus's suggestion of increasing the healing values. As CRD said, it is an automatic heal, so we don't want it too powerful.

I think you may have over estimated the Guardians Trentonater. Yes they are powerful, but as CDR said they will not be able to charge anyone (will edit that in), cannot be increased in number and if tarpitted to the front anyone else can simply charge to the shard to the flank or rear.

The explosion affects everyone, and chances are there will be be more Legion of Nagash units around to reap its benefits, than enemy units.

I will amend the first post, so let me know what you all think.
 

Trentonator

Crypt Horror
Dec 1, 2007
598
But the problem is that it does so much for so little of a points cost. It doesn't seem like a necessary target to take out being only 250 points AND you'd have to focus fire on it. A single rank and file unit probably won't be able to kill those five troops... ever.. and if you do focus fire, you're probably going to lose those units. I understand that you can't go out and attack with the guards, but with the shard even being there you would never have to, your army would lose next to no casualties. Maybe if you made the healing a bound spell and not just automatically casting then it MAY be 350-400 points.

If you don't think so, I severely think you should playtest it and see how incredibly powerful it really is.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Hmm, after mulling it over I can see how it might be OP Trentonator.

How about instead of auto healing it can cast the Great Awakening (see things that are certain thread) as a bound spell - power level 2D6?

I think with these revisions no more than 300pts.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Yes, i can see how it can be overpowered as it is, but giving it that bound would make it even more powerful as to stop it you would have to save at least 3 despell dice and the spell is very powerfull and on average will add another rank onto most core units.

I think you should go for the orginal number of woulds healed as a bound with a power level of D6+6 and it can't heal anything above starting numbers, and it should stay at 250pts because i think any more then that and it's taking to big a chunk out of your points.

P.s The chart at the top (11+) has a diffrent casting value to the actual spell (12+) in the things that are certain thread.
 
Jun 24, 2009
132
I really like this concept.

One thing though, maybe the guardians shouldn't have immunity to crumbling. The idea seems to be that the shard emits power and keeps them together, but isn't that doubly implied by the fact it heals them 1 per turn as well? Given that they are T4, 2+AS, and 4+ ward, I would argue immunity to crumbling is over the top -- they need some weakness.

Maybe if the guardians die, the shard is not destroyed, it just sits there and continues to heal units. It would only explode if actually targeted and killed, perhaps it could have the same weakness as a chariot where a S7 hit can maul it. It has a 4+ ward to protect against this anyway. The KB on catastrophic power seems a little OTT IMO.
 
I prefer it now. The main reason I wanted to increase the number of models it raised was because as it couldnt move, I was afraid it would not hae much raising opertunity, so I wanted to make sure what it did do counted. As it is now, I think that it works well, the raising and movent is fair. The only concern I would have is the Guard, they are virtually invincible: T4, 2+ AS and 4+ ward, ignore crumbling and regain 1 per turn, not to mention 5A at S4 with ASF. I think this is a bit OP, and would say either remove the 4+ ward or immune to Crumble.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok, I would say then we remove the crumble. However I think in that case we should have the Shard count as two ranks.

Capt Rubber Ducky - A bound spell is a lot less powerful, due to the fact you can actually negate it. The auto healing has no way to stop it, so the bound for me is the better option. The casting value of that spell should be 12+, however that is irregardless as the power level will be 2D6 - so you may end up with the max 12 but you may also end up with 2.

I personally think the bound spell and removing not crumbling would be the best and most simple option.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Mar 9, 2008
4,034
Singapore
The wording on the Shard needs a bit of work. As it is now Levitation is a special ability not a Bound, while in the Inanimate object section you mention it can only be moved by the Levitation spell, implying that it is a bound spell.

And you need to state that the Shard cannot raise units beyond their starting size. It is way too powerful that way.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
OK, I have made some amendments - let me know what you all think. The Great Awakening spell has already been voted through so it shouldn't be too overpowered. I have tempered it by giving a variable casting value, meaning a low roll can make it very easy to dispel, and the highest roll was the spells casting value anyway.
 

Arion

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Marcus Von Drac said:
Where does it say Obsidian dispells magic?
Nagash created his pyramid out of Obsidian to attract magic to it.

Confusing, in a WD there was an article on Balthasar Gelt, it mentioned a duel between him and the head of the magic colleges, and how the walls of the duelling chamber were tiled with obsidian to dispel and contain magic cast at it or in the room and stop the immensely powerful spells from smashing through a normal wall and adversely affecting the city.
 

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