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The Dark Sheep

Master Vampire
True Blood
Feb 8, 2008
4,529
8 should be more than enough IMO.

And when we're at it; we should limit all the bloodlines to a set number of powers. It would, after all, be a bit unfair if one bloodline had 4/5 powers when another one had say 12/13.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok, in that case the Blood Dragons have a complete list. I am personally happy with the full list, and think it would be fine to put to the vote.
 

Fodderboy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jul 24, 2008
2,238
'Naki, New Zealand
How about making Master of the Blade re-roll to wound instead of re-roll to hit? It seems a lot of things get re-rollable hits. Hit re-rolls are twice as effective as wound re-rolls, but there seems to be a lot of hatred-type abilities.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
No actually, I did design it with re-rolls to hit in mind.

We already have Master-Strike that re-rolls to wound, yet no power to re-roll to hit which seems a bit off for a vampire who is the pinnacle of combat skill.

Plus for 100pts I think lowering to re-rolling wounds would not be good enough.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Aug 19, 2007
3,472
Oh I thought be meant blademaster. My apologies for sowing confusion.

As a side note, perhaps make it +1 to hit instead? Virtually the same but different... We should however consider the cost here. +2 attacks is 2 x 30pts, inf hatred but better so 30pts so perhaps just drop the extra I boost as I dont see the vampire getting physically faster. Just a thought.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Hmmm, I think the I10 in combat feels better to consider this warrior is the best of the best, fast in combat and supremely skilled with the blade.

However I would be willing to compromise on swapping the re-rolls to hit, if +1 to hit would be more balanced?
 

Swissdictator

Vampire Count
True Blood
Apr 16, 2008
1,546
Wisconsin
I'm really liking the Horse Master rule. I really do. As I always associate lots of wights with Blood Dragons, this would make Black Knights an even more effective 'heart' of the army.

Though maybe for a small points increase (or not) I'd like to see it allow the option of taking a Skeletal Steed for X points... so he can join a Black Knight unit an be mobile through terrain and such.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Aug 19, 2007
3,472
Its better than hatred, all of the benefits with no drawback = 25-30pts
2 attacks are worth closer to 50-60pts, sword of battle is 30pts IIRC.
The WS and I isnt much, the vampire will have WS9 I base I believe(due to being a BD vampire).

You will however be able to choose magic items on top of this and as such I think a some kind of restriction is in order.
Just a tiny one, like "due to the intense martial training his knowledge in the lore of vampires suffered" and have him know one less spell than he normally would.

Also, the 50 point bloodline. Shouldnt it be 55pts instead? Do we really want to see multiple uber cavalry units? I dont think we should encourage deathstar units.
I also think the re-roll to wound and KB ability should be 50pts, not a dramatic change but there should be no room for any magic weapon for a hero(not even the biting blade!).
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I agree on the one less spell. So it ends up as:

Master of Blades - 100pts
This vampire has trained for hundreds, if not thousands of years, and has unmatched in combat save for Abhorash himself....
The vampire has WS10, I10 whilst in combat only, +2A, and may re-roll misses in combat. He knows one less spell than he normally would.

I agree on the Living Legend comment, I suppose only a vampire lord would have such control anyway - amended to 55pts.

I'm not sure what you mean about the Master Strike power, the vampire has 50pts of Bloodline powers and 50pts of Magic items. So even if you upped it to 50, he could still take a 50pt magic item.
 

Danceman

The Devil in Pale Moonlight
True Blood
Aug 19, 2007
3,472
How so? re-rolls to hit = 30pts(effectively inf. hatred but without the disadvantages, hence the extra 5pts). 2 attacks = 50pts(more expencive since it stacks up attacks), +3 I is worth what? 20pts?(I believe dwarf pay 5-10pts per +1 I as a rune) and 10pts per WS(I think). So yeah, I think it is fairly priced as it is. A little bit above 100 but know one less spell. Think about it, the vampire with this ability will also have 100pts of magic items. It will be a real beast which can take on bloodthristers whilst at the same time generate up to 2pd and 2dd per turn. Add in this is the character your opponent have to kill in order to make your army crumble. Just saying, its already powerful enough, lets not go down the road of Daemons.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Yeah Dancey is right. It's powerful enough as it is 6 re-rollable WS10 attacks.

Depending on if they are any more comments in here, these will probably be the powers that are voted next.
 

Vic

Black Knight
Jan 29, 2008
384
Sofia
I've always imagined a different approach for doing those bloodline things - keep pretty much everything with the current book, but add more relatively cheap BLs with disadvantages.

(Note: since this tread is here for quite some time and a lot of people spent time helping balance the current powers, don't take my take too seriously. I'm just posting cuz I have nothing better to do atm :P)

So this cheap bloodlines are divided into major heritages and normal ones. You aren't forced too choose a major one with your lord, but if you do all other vampires must take it as well. Normal heritages can only be of the type of your major one.

Blood Dragons:

Major Heritage - 5pts
Such is the devotion of the Blood Dragons to the martial arts, that they barely have any time practicing spelcasting (not to mention that they hate it!)
+2 WS, -1pd generated. As an addition, a Lord level character with this power treats all mundane Heavy Armors as Full Plate armors instead. The vampire with highest Ld in the unit must always issue and accept challenges. The Blood Dragons are allowed to take a mundane Lance (10pts) and barding for their Nightmares (6pts, 8 for lord)

(Note: that way they can take pretty much the same as what Dread Knight offers with AoD, but it would cost 25 pts with the heritage, so they still are able to buy 25pt stuff. Ofc it's still a lot cheaper to go for Dread Knights)

Normal ones:

Strength of Steel - 10pts
Such is the vampire's martial prowess that he is able too strike at the precise moment when it will cause the most carnage.
The Vampire has +1 strength the turn he charges.

Deadly Precision - 20pts
All the years of training are finally paying on the battlefield. The Blood Dragons easily go around the defenses of even the most skillful of warriors
Re-roll failed rolls to hit in the 1st round of combat and rolls of 1 to wound on any turn you're not charging.
(note: NOT hatred, added so that people may use it as a weaker infinite hatred and still be able to combo with 25pts items)



That would be my take on the VC. I have some ideas about the other bloodlines as well

Example:
Necrarch - 10pts
Vampires get -1 WS and -1 I. Lord level vampire knows +1 spell. All vampires can once per game at the beginning of any single magic phase, activate a power that gives them +1 to cast / dispel during that phase, but no more than one may activate this at the same time.

+1 PD (for hero vamps only) = 20 pts

and so on and so on, this is off topic here :P
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
In a way we kinda have done that, we are imposing stat changes if you see the Blood Dragon stat change thread. So you do choose the bloodline you want - then you get access to those powers.

Ok, does anyone have any more suggestions or changes to these powers, if not I will put them to the vote after the Strigoi ones.
 

Fodderboy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jul 24, 2008
2,238
'Naki, New Zealand
I agree with Damseman about having a +1 to hit power. I've always resented having a combat-oriented character missing 1/3 of their attacks vs snotlings.

I think it would be better than having a weapon skill boost or extra attacks.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
They do have a better chance of hitting, as with their 6A that hit mostly on 3+, they then get to re-roll any misses........
 

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