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Borgnine's Log: Another liche and a zombie wedding present!

Leithel

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I'm pretty new to the forums so I read through the whole backlog of your plot and I'm overwhelmingly impressed and inspired. Your work is very good, especially your ghoul king and queen.

Also love the detailed backgrounds!
 

Borgnine

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@Leithel Good to hear that you're inspired! :) Big thanks for kind words and even bigger thanks for reading and appreciating my backstory for them ;) And I like yours also :thumbsup:
 

Borgnine

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Ok, as I already said in the "Currently Working On" thread, I am currently working on Nagash - I try to de-egypt-ize him and make him fit a little bit better with my kinda-slavic wights. Lately I have been assembling him, removing the mould lines and covering the gaps and irregularities with green stuff - all the time thinking about how should I convert him. I got some plasticine and began adding stuff here and there, making a 'draft' of sorts.

Generally I am sure that the pope hat is going away and that I'd like to cover some parts of him with bones - and that last thing was inspired by the boss Nito from Dark Souls. Plasticine is doing a mediocre job of simulating the skeletons and maybe that's why I am not very impressed at this point. Also, the crown should be taller in my opinion. What do you think about this?

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Another option is to get rid of the bones on his skirt - but if I do that, I'll have to cover it with some freehands to make it at least a bit interesting - yellow on black, how I did with Krell. And I'm not sure if I'm ready for such and undertaking - and I'm not even sure that it'll work out on such scale...

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Well, I'm going back to thinking about this. Still a lot of details to think about...
 

Adam_Barrow

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I think the crown will work. Maybe try it with fewer spines? You might have some misgivings about it because the crown looks really busy as it it.

As for the bones on his shoulder and cloak, I feel like I can see what you're going for but the idea isn't quite formed to its end yet. The joys of a work in progress, right? It'll come to you, don't try to force it.
 
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Here is a idea, what if you could incorporate the old clown face Nagash into the new model. Would be really cool to see the new model done old school.

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Farmer7574

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@Borgnine I love the new look of his hat... Much better and more menacing than the original's one. This makes Sauron look like a little girl.

The idea of having some sort of mantle at the top (which you've used plasticene to mock up here) is making me wander about how a cape made of skulls or skeletons would look. Too cheesy for some maybe, but could be awesome if well executed.
 

Leithel

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Great idea on the headgear and I like what you've done a lot. You might need something to keep the thin fingers of the crown symmetrical but it looks heaps better than the original.

The bones idea is great, though perhaps the plasticine one sare a little too large. Wargames factory does cheap skeletons that have nice spindly bones that would do the job cheaply if you want to try it with something fine.
 

Tawg

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I like the idea a bit, although I have a few thoughts:

First, if your primary goal is uniqueness or individuality, I definitely think that the bones on the cape look better with the whole "bulking up" shoulder-bone-yard idea. The "bulking out" compliment each other and keep things from looking.. like they are lacking something.

I get the look, it looks very "Viking" with the bulked up shoulders, reminiscent of a barbarian you'd think of with a huge bear/wolf cloak. But instead of mere animals, Nagash has bested and skinned death itself. The concept is there, and cool. I also think people might be looking at what you have mocked up as "bones" when realistically you're just using those for filler mass, and you plan to cover them with more of a full bone-pit style coverings, rather than using "giant bones" the size those mock ups are... right?

Because realistically, in my mind, there aren't quite as many huge bones to drape across him, and I think it doesn't quite get the point across. With huge bones in substitute for those noodles on him currently, it looks more like he's a giant/dragon hunter, with trophies of his hunts. But that's less the intention than screaming pure "DEATH". And I assume it will be more of a look like a bone-pit/the linked picture you presented, which is far more amorphous. That's the look I think you should go for, at any rate.

In keeping with that idea as well, I think the bones draping down the robes are an alright idea, but perhaps not as.. sausage-linked bones, but rather more like I mentioned before, with more "Whole" skeleton parts of the much smaller lives he commands in unlife. Like with full rib-cages or such, maybe even a skeleton trying to claw/crawl up his robes or such.

At any rate, these are the directions my mind when when I saw your inspiration/ideas. It might be a bit over the top, but I think it would be much cooler.

As for the helm, I agree with @Adam_Barrow that perhaps less could be more. I'd toy around with it to see if it perhaps looked better at a certain ratio (As long as there aren't 8 equidistant points!). Alternatively you could in different directions? The old Nagash presented by @wheeljack, as well as the new Neferata, have those "bone surface" style hats.. which come to think of it is fairly similar to Nagash's current pope-hat you hate. One of the only really "Slavic" themes I noticed when looking at period-typical helms was something like a face-mask. Which could be cool? But I don't think it's the style you're going for, nor what should be on Nagash. Plus it's probably far too Stormcast for anyone right now :ghost: But death-metal-evil crown works, for sure.
 

Borgnine

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Wow, that's quite a response!

@Adam_Barrow I'll try with fewer crown spikes - right now I'm in middle of cutting them out of plasticard, I'll see how that will turn out. And yes, I feel a little as if I'm back on the university, struggling with the first ideas for a building and how the hell should I make it work xD

@wheeljack While it would be indeed an interesting project to make, it doesn't fit my direction right now ;) Besides, @Mioum did already quite a fine job on 'modernizing' the old Nagash HERE.

@Farmer7574 Funny that you say that, for I came up with the same idea in the meantime, before I read your post ;) I'll greenstuff a cape first and then glue the bones to it - it should solve the earlier problems with keeping the length of the bone-surface along the body and be more flexible. Also, thanks for the comment about his crown - I'll elaborate a little more below.

@Leithel Of course, the bones here are just here to show the expected bulk of the bones - the proper bones will be thin. I have bought the same kit that you mentioned a long time ago just for them to serve as a wardrobe for Nagash. As for the crown - them being symetrical isn't a big concern, for his whole armor will undergo some weathering and damaging. I am going for an ancient and worn-out look, not prim and proper how GW suggests ;)

@Tawg First, thank you for such a lengthy comment - I very much enjoyed reading it ;) Yes, I as wrote above, the bones will be replaced with proper size skeletons, with ribcages, skulls and other bones. It will be a proper mass of teeming skeletons on his back. I like your interpretation about besting and skinning death :)
And for the slavic themes - it is really difficult to incorporate anything distinctive, as the slavic culture was strongly intermingled with the viking one and the visual style is very similiar. One thing that sets it aside and is very easy to use for me are the very pointy helmets - shape also used in russian architecture. This is the main motiv for me when designing his crown - the spikes will suggest this shape. As for the number of them - maybe 9 will be good, as there are nine books of Nagash. Other than that, I will use the patterns on his skirt and add some symbols and pieces such as THIS to make it better. Slavic style can be also expressed in colors (white with red details) - but they don't fit my theme ;)

Right now I'm going back to thinking, cutting and glueing - I'll post something later - maybe when I'll have a placticine cape or when I'll draw a color scheme for him. Once again, thanks for all the comments xD
 

Theerteen

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Ouh, now that will be interesting to watch. I don't think after my personal top 3 (3 = TG, 2 = Vargheists, 1 = CH) of your stuff you are able to dethrone of them with a model I don't really like...but I'll wait patiently to see what your sick mind will create here ;)
 

Borgnine

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@Theerteen I didn't know my TG scored so high ;) I don't promise anything, but I'll try my best. I also can't say it's my favourite, I'll design it more skeletal, but it's Nagash man ;)

Last days were a little busy, so I haven't made much progress, but the design phase is completed in my opinion. I'll do the the cape and cover it with skeletons - and as I've seen on the sketch, it'll actually complement his thin waist quite good and give me a good piece to paint red. It's now only a question how I'll sculpt it properly ;) As for the crown - the axis of it will be VERY pointy helmet, quite literally a russian church dome xD Six crown spikes seem to work the best with it. Pictures below:

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Theerteen

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Don't know why I think at that so late, but while you go for Nito, are you planning something like the flame in Nitos hand? Would fit in my opinion...
 

Tawg

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it'll actually complement his thin waist quite good
Quite well indeed. (Sorry that was bothering me a lot!)

Also, what are those two little disk on his chest? Covering up some sort of saggy-undead-boob slip? Or an important icon to fit the theme? I don't really recognize the symbol if it is one I might. Looks sort of like little pin-wheels.
 

Borgnine

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@Theerteen I'm rather keeping the book, as it gives a possibility for some cool freehand. Besides, the Nito reference applies only to the skeleton-cape - if I wanted to reference him stronger, it would probably need making a new miniature from scratch ;)

@Tawg Two discs are to represent SVARGA and KOLAVRAT, two symbols that exist in the slavic mythology and are really easy to implement on a miniature, like I did on a banner before.

And a one comment more about the work on this model - the ghost swarm and his cloth is really tedious when it comes to covering all the gaps and joints.... :frown:
 

Tawg

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And a one comment more about the work on this model - the ghost swarm and his cloth is really tedious when it comes to covering all the gaps and joints.... :frown:
Greenstuffing type issues?

I just assembled a good number of Wyrd miniatures, and I have quite a bit of greenstuff work ahead of me right now. About to dig into that currently :ghost:
 

Farmer7574

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@Borgnine I'm liking the mock up of the second draft. The crown is looking better in your most recent post and the cape shows a better idea of how it will look when it's done.

@Theerteen I love the idea of a flame in the hand instead of the spirits/book he comes with.
 

Borgnine

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@Tawg yeah, greenstuffing... and when I thought I was done with it, I kept noticing new gaps... But it's still nothing compared to the rest of the things I had to put up with during the last weeks.
@Farmer7574 glad you like it! I hope you'll like the next parts of the drafts below ;)

Work on Nagash.... work around Nagash and getting prepared to do Nagash, to be precise, is taking pretty damn forever. Some of it is real life stuff and some of it my own ideas of course...

First - I decided to make the base a little more interesting. Most often the ghosts on Nagash's skirt are just flying around above the ground - and the fact that there are skulls and whole skeletons in it didn't sit well with me. So I decided to do something like this - the ghosts are raising the dead buried beneath the ground and in that process, they are ripping the whole landscape apart - we're talking 'Powerful Necromancer' after all. I glued the man to the ground, cut some cork and mount it around the ghost to form ripped, cracked ground, leaving ravines behind. Pictured:

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And then, to make the cracks turn a little easier into the ground around, I added milliput around the cracks:

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And that was the easy part. Later I added some skeleton parts in the ravines, the 'raising corpes in his wake' part. The ghosts still don't look very much connected with the ground at this point and the raw base is still showing beneath. To remedy this, I started to pour into the cracks watered down PVA glue. It pools and sticks to the objects and then dries into a clear surface. I had to repeat the process MANY times and each time needed a long ass time to dry.... but in the end I got the effect I was looking for - ravines will be filled with a 'ghost river' of sorts. It will glow and stuff!

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In the meantime, I sculpted the general shape of his cloak in greenstuff. Later I will cover it with skeletons, cut the edges into more tattered shapes and add textures.

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And the additional slavic-themed decorations for this base - alkonosts! Earlier I had the bodies and had to sculpt the heads, now I had just the heads and had to sculpt the rest. I'd say it's not bad. They will rest on wooden greybeard sculptures on the front of the base.

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There's more! More waiting! I decided I need more than one little old-man sculpture thing, so I followed a tutorial on the net and tried copying them at home! I did the first one and later the form. It turned out to be a disaster. I did it once again and then it worked. Even so, each step of the work demands a whole day of waiting for the GS to set. I don't even remember when I started all of this... Left one is the original, the rest is copied. There's much more.

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And even more pics! I did a draft of the color scheme I had in store for Nagash in PS and I would very much like to hear your opinions about it! While I still can change something xD Generally it will be very much like my Wights and Krell, if someone needs some more conrete example.

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Leithel

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Wow man you're certainly pulling out all the stops for this guy. Good mix of warm and cold tones on your drawing, I think it will blend nicely.

Did you use instant mold for the casting?

Man I wish I could sculpt like that, I'm not sure I have the patience. I always find it hard how a base is going to turn out until it's painted but it looks like it'll be cool.

You planning on entering any competitions with this big fella?
 

Farmer7574

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@Borgnine You've made quite a bit of progress on this guy. I'm not a guy with a lot of green stuff experience but I know by making forest bases it can be time consuming. Your sculpt of his cloak is looking wicked, I can see it being covered in bones will be the icing on the cake!

I love the colour draft, the mix works really well and I like the superior amount of cold colours, which bode well for the character.

Great idea with the basing. I had in mind to put TK horsemen skeletons in the spirits to show them being sucked up and revived by magic, and maybe even some greeny blue fire coming off the reviving skeletons' bones like on his sword, but the ripping up of the land works really well! Love it.

Oh, and @Leithel 's right. We don't even have to wait until this guy is finished to say you should enter this into a competition when he's done.

Top stuff, keep at it!
 

Adam_Barrow

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The gold free hand on the cloak is going to drive you insane. I can't wait to see that stuff done!

Dude, I'm stealing your base theme. That is such a slick idea. I had planned to put the other two spirit hosts on Naggie's base already (the third in the box ended up on my Casket), but adding ghostlit troughs is a stroke of genius.
 

Blutsauger

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That Harpy's Embrace is particularly nice. What is the scale like? I have some of the Gamezone Mournful Knights and they're quite small compared to GW models.
 

Borgnine

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@Leithel thanks! This turns out to really be my most extensive and massive project ever! The next ones will see more conversion work and sculpting, but here the painting will be the real focus point. Good to hear that you like the colors ;)
I didn't use instant mold (I didn't knew such a thing existed, had to look it up - very interesting!) but normal greenstuff - I already fixed the missing link about the tutorial about it. I had it pressed in a vice, inside bases, pictured below:

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@Farmer7574 not as big progess as I should have made! xD I'm also really glad that you like my color concept - your color compositions are wicked good, so that matters a lot for me :)

@Adam_Barrow earlier I thought about covering his skirt with bones to avoid this amount of freehanding, but then I thought, why should I avoid a good challenge? ;) I will have to look a bit for some fitting inspiration to go there. Also, thanks to you and @Farmer7574 also for praising the base - feel free to steal any idea ;) In my current job I have plenty of time to think about future projects xD

@Blutsauger thanks! It's difficult to describe her scale, as she's in an untypical position, but her head is a little bit higher than Vlad von Carstein's head - or alternatively, the shoulder of the dude she captured is as high as a Grave Guard's head. She's definitely not too small.

Also @Leithel and @Farmer7574 about the competition - I once entered a one, when I painted worse and didn't know any better. These things are dominated by big studios and winning competitions is like an industry for them - at least in Poland - and I'm just a hobbyist that doesn't have enough patience to make everything as perfect as the jury usually wants ;) But I'll definitely give it a thought, we'll see how he'll look once he's done :)

Also a little additional treat - I mix a great deal of greenstuff lately and I have lots of leftovers. I use them to customize my Orcs and make them more persian. It's quite easy ;)

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Farmer7574

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@Borgnine Nice looking orcs! Persian themed... That's different.

I've got a lot of anticipation for your Nagash project. Looking at your previous work and the WIP updates, we are in for something awesome! Your ideas and execution of them are very inspirational.
 

Sessioni

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@Borgnine Your Nagash is some next level stuff. I really like your way of mixing fantasy miniatures with a real life historical myths/symbols, as I am a history geek myself. Are you going to add some details on the nine books of Nagash? About the cape. Looking from your PS-picture, it seems you are going to add sewn together leather pieces on it, am I right? Because if I am... awesome. The color scheme will definitely work, why wouldn't it, it worked for Krell. And Nagash being such a center piece, I would not change the color scheme from the rest of the army. Keep up the astonishing work!
 

Borgnine

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@Farmer7574 I will try my absolute best ;) And the orcs are persian in the "300" movie sense - I still think how to do and incorporate Xerxes into all of this.

@Sessioni glad to read that ;) The books themselves are quite detailed on their own - of course I will try to scribe something in the opened book, but the rest of them will stay as they are - what kind of details do you have in mind? And yes, the outside of the cape will be made of pieces of skin/leather and the inside will be some kind of visceral red. Big thanks for the encouragement :)
 
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