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Can 9th just come out already?

Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#1
Seriously, this wait is driving me insane. The ET cycle is over. We know what happens to the fluff. We know that big changes are coming, but have not a clue in hell as to what they will be (I'll eat my hat if the current rumours throwing people on Dakka and Whineseer into a tizzy are more than 60% accurate). I've got a couple Swedish tournaments coming up that are running the US Masters pack, but that pack will be on 9th edition next year so it's basically just spinning wheels right now.

...which is how I kind of feel about the hobby in general right now...spinning wheels. I want 9th to come out so I can start figuring out how to break it. Write new filthy vampire builds. See if changes to mounted character rules make abyssal terror / coven throne vampires more useful than as decorative paperweights.

Anybody else feeling the same way?
 
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
583
#2
I'm feeling conflicted. I mean I don't want most of the rumors to be true. But I would like to see you eat your hat ;)

Seriously though I'm in no hurry. I like 8th edition and I'm not real concerned with 9th. I'd be fine if they put it off for a while.
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
#3
I'm anxious to see 9th too. I think their plan is to have us wallow in the Armies of the End Times rules for 2 months and play unbound for the short term.

Interesting note though, during the port fiasco that delayed the Harlequin Codex by 3 weeks, Archaon was rerouted, flown in from the UK and shipped out to Europe from the UK and to the USA from the East Coast to keep the last End Times book on schedule everywhere. So, my guess is that whatever is happening with Fantasy is sooner than later and it couldn't handle Archaon being 3 weeks delayed on release. GW spent through the nose to keep Archaon on track. Something important is going to happen.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#4
I'm anxious to see 9th too. I think their plan is to have us wallow in the Armies of the End Times rules for 2 months and play unbound for the short term.

Interesting note though, during the port fiasco that delayed the Harlequin Codex by 3 weeks, Archaon was rerouted, flown in from the UK and shipped out to Europe from the UK and to the USA from the East Coast to keep the last End Times book on schedule everywhere. So, my guess is that whatever is happening with Fantasy is sooner than later and it couldn't handle Archaon being 3 weeks delayed on release. GW spent through the nose to keep Archaon on track. Something important is going to happen.
dang it @najo. I was content to wait for at least 6 months, but then you had to go and say all that...
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
927
#5
I'm anxious to see 9th too. I think their plan is to have us wallow in the Armies of the End Times rules for 2 months and play unbound for the short term.

Interesting note though, during the port fiasco that delayed the Harlequin Codex by 3 weeks, Archaon was rerouted, flown in from the UK and shipped out to Europe from the UK and to the USA from the East Coast to keep the last End Times book on schedule everywhere. So, my guess is that whatever is happening with Fantasy is sooner than later and it couldn't handle Archaon being 3 weeks delayed on release. GW spent through the nose to keep Archaon on track. Something important is going to happen.
This is exactly why I'm so confident that all of the "WHFB is getting shitcanned" rumours are just fucking made up. The End Times have clearly been in production for YEARS. That amount of narrative along takes forever to write. Plus the models. Plus the art. Plus the type setting and design of those books. Plus months getting them printed.

The expense of this End Times endeavour is massive, and are CLEARLY the harbinger of some big development for fantasy. No way is it "yeah we're ditching it all and starting from scratch." They want us there getting excited about this so that we can encourage new people to play, which is why I expect it will be some sort of fancy new skirmish game to go alongside minor tweaks to the standard core rules.

Kind of like how Marvel recently rebooted their entire line, in order to make it easier for new people to get in. Fluff reboot, entry-level skirmish game, tightening of existing rules...enough change to get everybody in at ground level, but not changed so much that it's unfamiliar to your existing customer base.



Note that I'm not CONCERNED about the rumours. I'm maintaining a veneer of cautious optimism (since there's always an opportunity that they can fuck it up, and anybody who's heard/read me recounting my games knows how much I love the jankiness possible in the present system). It's not that I'm concerned for the future, just impatient to see what it *IS*. I want it out now so I can start playing it, not sitting around with my thumb up my ass.


(Not helping either that I'm super wired on coffee right now)
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
#6
Yeah, I'm with you. I think they didn't go through all of this trouble to start from scratch. I think 9th is going to be Warhammer revisioned with a lot of us oooing and awwing at how they incorporated the old world into the new one.
 

The Sun King

Imperator
True Blood
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,838
#8
I completely agree Pirate! What is really bugging me is that the internet is going insane over weird rumours, and I don't care much for other people's opinions on rumours in the first place.
 

Deamon

Skeleton
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
56
#9
I can't wait for 9th mainly because I really hesitate to spend my hard earned money on models that may not even be around in 9th... Nagash? 140$. Will he be playable? Maybe the same way Vlad or Konrad were but will he fall in a : you can still play him but he will not be supported, aka his rules will eventually be unusable, anymore. Do I really need a 3rd boxes of Black Knights? ...etc All stuff I currently want but I'm unsure if I should purchase. All should be clear once 9th is out.
 

Emicrania

Wight King
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
486
#10
This is a question, don't you guys think is a bit unwise to end up the ETC like that?
Economically talking I mean, it looks like I'm not the only one losing interest in buying new miniature not knowing what the hell is gonna happen
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,156
#11
Considering I was already planning to try some sort of elaborate conversion of Nagash without rules to field him even before the End Times brought him back, I'm not too concerned about it.

Honestly, I'd prefer if 9e took it's time getting here, so I could have a while to actually play through some more of the end times stuff, and finish collecting a few more of the units that I doubt will be available any more once 9e is released.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,156
#15
Makes no more sense than giving a huge sentimental send-off to a major product line before rebooting it. Not every decision at GW is made by empty suits.
 

Adam_Barrow

Sleepless Knight
True Blood
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
3,071
#16
That sentimental send-off seems to have made them some money, though. Anecdotal evidence inbound, but I bought ET: Nagash, a Mortarch box, a Spirit Hosts box, and I'm looking at Nagash this paycheck, ET: Thanquol, the new Verminlord, and the new Grey Seer model. That's a decent amount of money from one buyer. Though I'll grant not everybody happens to play two of the armies with big ET releases.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#17
That sentimental send-off seems to have made them some money, though. Anecdotal evidence inbound, but I bought ET: Nagash, a Mortarch box, a Spirit Hosts box, and I'm looking at Nagash this paycheck, ET: Thanquol, the new Verminlord, and the new Grey Seer model. That's a decent amount of money from one buyer. Though I'll grant not everybody happens to play two of the armies with big ET releases.
Not everyone played two armies before ET, but they basically do now. I hadn't bought new models in quite some time. When Nagash released, I bought ET: Nagash, Nagash, Lore of Undeath Cards, a TK book, Khaine Magic cards, a unit of Ogres for Converting, 2 units of Ushabti, 3 Cairn Wraiths, a TB, 2 boxes of Morghasts, a box of Blightkings for converting, a box of Black Knights. Granted this was spread out over six months, but amounted to more than I had ever spent on fantasy before that. And that's not even counting stuff I got on ebay. If GW thought fantasy had no support before ET, we as players, corrected that.
 

Adam_Barrow

Sleepless Knight
True Blood
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
3,071
#18
Totally forgot I bought LoU and LoTombKings cards too. I already had the TK book from the week it was released.
 

Emicrania

Wight King
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
486
#19
@Emicrania : I don't think that the people complaining on the internet are a big percentage of the people who actually buy GW products :)

May I ask if you are stating a fact or an opinion? In the case it is a fact, where did you took yout piece of evidence?
I ask because on reddit and elsewhere I have the impression to meet more Old Timer than fresh faces buyng Recaster stuff.
Which btw is simply the beginning, on DakkaDakka last summer was a guy posting for free his ideas for the Cadian Force, in CAD for the 3d printers, and Hero forge is another example where the miniature world is going.
 

Dragonet

Wight King
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
450
#20
End Times saw me put money GW's way: Nagash hardbacks and Lore of Undeath. I started collecting a few years ago after a long break from GW and it was other systems and suppliers that kept me in wargames. When Space Hulk and End Times came out I saw them both as a cash grab, but the quality of the products at face value and the reappearance of awesome IP and artwork compelled me to dip a toe. When Khaine came out I had to go to the resellers on eBay because my local stores had no books or cards for my second army, and having shelled out almost double GW's prices, something I'd have never done a couple of years ago, I was disappointed with the product. I have respect for people who vote with their wallets and support GW, and I try to do the same with every company, band or individual who produces something great. But there are so many deserving companies; so much stuff to buy, and so little time to actually enjoy it all. With the greatest respect, I'll be weathering whatever storm comes from the comfort of the rock I crawled out of, happily glueing, painting and playing with what I have until GW earns my love.
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
#23
I know for a fact that one of the disconnects between GW and their customers is they are only connected to part of their customer base, but their customers are broken into 3 segments. Mind you these are broad generalizations, and most of us are majority one of these and then partially of the others.

So, segment one buys from GW, plays only with GW and likes the majority of what GW puts out. These people enjoy new purchases as they have clean models, can assemble and paint and then tend to keep the armies they build. GW can monitor this market and targets everything they do at them.

Segment two are fans who GW can sway from time to time, but they are frugal and try to minimize cost over having things new or early. They would rather convert or buy second hand then purchase new. These are people who want to enjoy Warhammer but pay as little for it out of pocket as possible. These guys trade, buy almost extensively second hand and will rather make do with something old and grimy then new and shiny. The main problem though, is they do not contribute much to GW's revenue stream. So FLGS and GW themselves which need support to continue, don't get a lot of support from these guys and can actually be harmed as GW has no clue who these people are, how much they play with and what they spend. They can't monitor them and don't get much revenue from them, this segment influences the customers base from a blindside for GW. Because of this GW can't consider these people a true customer, even though these people consider themselves GW's customers.

Segment three are fans who hate GW but want to play warhammer. They purposely purchase third party models and pride themselves on not playing with GW. I was at a tournament last weekend and there was another vampire player there who every miniature in his army was mantic or mantic converted for something. Although the majority of it looked good, the crypt horrors, varghiests, morghasts and other models that are not typical undead were small and kinda silly. So, I as a Warhammer fan, at a Warhammer event, have to remember what models are what because this guy refuses to buy some GW or at least convert more accurately to size and form something that I can distinguish as a crypt horror or a varghiest. So, even though these guys might support a FLGS or another company's revenue streams, they don't support GW's. GW is the enemy to them.

So, when you put all of these people on the internet together, GW can't distinguish which group is speaking. Is the guy complaining about costs, rules, models etc... is he anti-GW? Is he second hand only? He may think he has the best interests of the game in mind, but does he really? GW has no way to sort that out. Plus, a lot of gamers think they know how to design games or understand the games better than the designers. But if that were true, they'd be designing games.

Honestly, GW has only one voice they can truly measure, and that is what sells and what doesn't. So, for all intents and purpose, group one is the only customers that accurately matter. For us players, this isn't the case because we like having a diverse player base to play from. But for GW to keep our game in production, it needs to be worth it to them and their shareholders. But our voices get mixed in and mixed up, and vocal minorities get louder. In the end, the internet is full of a lot of noise and hostile elements (some of segments two and three) that are not constructive most of the time.

I suppose if GW figured out how to communicate with those segments and then win them over and convert them into segment one, that could be constructive. Its still not that simple as half of the GW hate is people picking on the big dog because they are the big dog. So how do you get down to the real issues when that is obscuring the discussion?
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
7
#24
Just wish GW would pull their finger out and release 9e. This end of times (mark 2) to be honest is a massive disappointment. Some nice models but fluff is poorly written and over priced. Not in keeping with the character of the army books. I suspect the GW is looking to try and reinvent fantasy but for me I think they have failed. They have killed the background fluff to the game .

I used to buy from GW but now only when I need to. 90% of my figures are GW but like most people my spare time and spare cash are limited so my hobby takes second place. If GW wants to connect with its customer maybe the should leave the office and work in the shop or even god forbid go to wargame clubs.......
 

Emicrania

Wight King
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
486
#25
You know,there are different aspect of the situation that ,seems to me,are always left outside of the discussion.

Let's take for example when the codex (1994) were pure fun to read,great fluff,great illustration, great tip how to fix YOUR.OWN.SHIT (base,terrain,movement trays,etc.). Yes they had some insane rules here and there,but hey, does Purple Sun of Xereus ring any bells?
Let's take White Dwarf, when was a great and necessary accessorize to the game: how to paint,battle report,Golden Daemon news,insight of the GW headquarters etc. Also when it cost wasnt a dime per page...
Let's take the miniature themselves, when the price was cheaper (we had a 4 page discussion with data and inflation rate data,but reality,as facts, are part of what googles are you given and decide to wear in life. Somebody pray a white arab with blue eyes that moonwalk on water,others a dude called Ron that wait with a spaceship to bring you home).
Let's take the miniature themselves for a moment. Yes they are more detailed and versatile,but so many details are not that important in a 150+ game as you don't and can't see them (for those who paints their miniature,not for the grey army dudes). Plus an aestethical POV, the new are too much 40k for mine and many other people taste (oh yes,those who buys GW toilette paper as well).

Now,this ETC capaign has been what we call at home "Scrape the bottom of the barrell". And for make some extra $ they KILLED the fluff and the rules, the last 2 best things that all the "HATERS" keep on loved and appreciate, but maybe they are not worthy of be listened,cause they don't invest capital money in the big mom GW. My last 5 weeks in the USA showed me very well this kind of mentality. And is exactly what me and most of "us" don't like and dislike of GW nowadays, The empty suit mentality that just keep on pushing the game on selective elite, daddy buys it, "Hail GW" kind of mentality, from their "special GW water container" to the 70$ models that you can use 6 months and than you put em on a shelf to to collect dust.

As for me I used to love GW and I used to hate em,no I have a constant mid disappointment that is transforming in calm acceptance of the End of Games Workshop as miniature company and its transformation in a toy figure collective only company. Be as it may,I care no more, my Mantic mini get compliments wherever i go ( I am the slow but persistent motherfucker that paints his mini, which is why i don't buy half new army every 4 months,if do you guys have all that time and all that money,well you should feel a little more fortunate than,let's say, 99,95% of the world population), I buy from Wayland games new minies when i like em, I buy used when i need the core to start an army and I'm tryn different recaster to see if they are worthy or not.

And to come back to topic,The ETC was probably necessary and a nice change of pace,still,after the first 2 books,was mostly garbage,on any angle, just to rush things to an end and bring down to hell the last money possible.
I hope the 9th will be good but,mark my words here, I am really skeptical any big positive change will happen. I forseen a shitstorm over the horizon worst than we ever seen,if not, I'll be the happiest motherfucker in the block.


EDIT: I forgot the main thing: the retail seller/ game house,that is as me and ,dunno at least 50-70 people from my hometown in the early 2000 got to really get into the game and start to play tournaments and stuff. GW themselves cut em out,only for ONE reason = money. They could had an even/minimum loss income from them but use em as a base to get fresh blood and show themselves.Now if that wasn't an idiotc,greedy heartless decision, I don't know what it was.
 
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