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Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
So on the back of my other thread, I've been wondering around the mechanics of something being resurrected from the Old World into Age of Sigmar - there appears to be a surprising amount of old characters popping up!

So what are the mechanics that someone can pop back up? From what I've seen so far:
  • Sigmar reforging - does this actually bring back the warrior as he was? So if they brought back Felix, would be like he was in the Old World, or transformed with just a remnant of himself?
  • Undead resurrection - Nagash seems to be ok popping back Neffie, Manny and Arkhan (Arky? 🤣).....nearly forgot Fruitloop! (Ushoran 🤣) Is it just Nagash that can do this, has there been any other records of lesser lords of undeath being able to do this?
  • Elf soul..thing? - Are they just soul essences or actual elves coming back?
Anyone else have more info?

On the note of who I'd like to see back....I think Kemmler might be fun, one of the stubborn necros who refused to die! Otherwise I'd quite like the Green Knight to maybe pop up again, start a knightly order who model themselves after him and crusade around the mortal realms searching for the lady in the lake!
 

Gederas

Grave Guard
Jun 15, 2021
208
Rhode Island
So on the back of my other thread, I've been wondering around the mechanics of something being resurrected from the Old World into Age of Sigmar - there appears to be a surprising amount of old characters popping up!

So what are the mechanics that someone can pop back up? From what I've seen so far:
  • Sigmar reforging - does this actually bring back the warrior as he was? So if they brought back Felix, would be like he was in the Old World, or transformed with just a remnant of himself?
  • Undead resurrection - Nagash seems to be ok popping back Neffie, Manny and Arkhan (Arky? 🤣).....nearly forgot Fruitloop! (Ushoran 🤣) Is it just Nagash that can do this, has there been any other records of lesser lords of undeath being able to do this?
  • Elf soul..thing? - Are they just soul essences or actual elves coming back?
Anyone else have more info?

On the note of who I'd like to see back....I think Kemmler might be fun, one of the stubborn necros who refused to die! Otherwise I'd quite like the Green Knight to maybe pop up again, start a knightly order who model themselves after him and crusade around the mortal realms searching for the lady in the lake!
In regards to Sigmar's reforging, it seems to be dependent on the "soul" used.

Yndrasta (the angel chick who's TOTALLY NOT an Order version of Valkia the Bloody) has all of her memories from when she was still mortal, but other Stormcast don't seem to have this. Whether or not this is because Yndrasta was personally reforged by Sigmar Himself isn't yet explained, but another returning character from the Old World is a Stormcast:

The Lord-Arcanum of the Grave Brethens chamber, Anvils of Heldenhammer stormhost, one Balthas Arum.

Yes, that's actually Balthasar Gelt. In the short story The Library of Forgotten Moments, he goes to the titular library to find the truth about his origins and the World-That-Was. There he encounters Mannfred, both parties not recognizing the other but struck by a strange sense of deja-vu. After a prolonged fight with Mannfred he discovers the secret of the library, a shard of Mallus that is the source of all of the librarians' knowledge about the old world. The story ends on a cliffhanger as he attempts to tap into the shard's knowledge for himself.

For the second: It seems that only Nagash is able to do that

Aelves.... No idea about the knife-eared bastards, someone else might need to chime in here 🤣
 
Jun 26, 2021
49
*Cracks talons*

As Gederas has mentioned, it really depends on the soul as well as the amount of corruption/degeneration (although this didn't stop a nurgle champion being redeemed and made into a Stormcast but at the same time
Hamilcar of the Astral Templar's soul was deemed too damaged/corrupted by Ikit Claw's machinations to be properly reforged.
) Theoretically a powerful enough soul could be plucked out of time/Nagash's grasp and reforged. I even think Settra was almost going to be an easter egg'd Stormcast (The Imperishables) but this has been retconned now.

From what I gather, most Stormcast lose most of their mortal memories with further memory and personality degeneration throughout further reforging (as more and more fragments of their souls are lost/taken by Nagash) eventually removing most of their humanity.

For the second, none that I am aware of...but Black Coaches are still a thing...What's not to stop a powerful enough necromancer/vampire from plotting to snatch away the soul fragments of a powerful World that Was undead character and finding a way to bring them back? Well, Nagash probably but he's often distracted being the punching bag of every other god of late... 😛

Thanquol and Ikit Claw (in fiction form only) managed to make the transition through lots of arcane means
and by becoming a Skaven version of a Stormcast after building his own version of the anvil for his use only![ Which restored a lot of his memories and mind...ironically

One aspect that hasn't been touched on are the Seraphon (at least the temple ship bound ones) who 'resurrect' their forces through star energy and the memories of the Slann. Effectively making memory constructs of the heroes that were. Of course, this has led to some debate over on Lustria Online on how reliable memories are (even by a Slann) and if these memories could be more selective and how much free will the memory constructs could have.
 

Zazel

Zombie
Jun 17, 2021
2
They’ve already been mentioned but agree with
Vlad and isabella
Gilles le breton/green knight
Kemmler

Also abhorash
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
I mean, afaik GW owns all the old world characters, so they ~can~ bring back any of them they want, and justify doing so however they like. They ~have~ done this for:

Chaos characters: the gods take the souls of their champions when they die, and can cough them up with new bodies whenever they want. How much exactly the new version of them remembers of their old life & how much they maintain their old personality is arbitrary & can vary from case to case, but the resurrection fidelity seems pretty high generally. This seems to be where we're most likely to see more old world characters crop up.

Stormcast: Sigmar can revive old world souls as stormcast, presumably accessing them through Malus in some way. Most old world souls should not be available this way, as they should have been consumed by the dark gods, but which happen to be available is entirely arbitrary. Resurrection fidelity is rather low here compared to chaos gods reviving their own champions, as the imperfect reforging process often leaves stormcasts with only hazy memories of their previous life, if any at all, and can affect their personality. And that's the charitable interpretation, as it's also quite possible that Sigmar is deliberately suppressing memories and motivations that might run contrary to the Stormcasts' mission.

Sylvaneth: Alarielle seems to have been able to preserve the souls of some tree spirits from the old world, reviving Durthu and Drycha with personalities more or less intact. I'm not personally familiar with how far this goes or whether she has access to some old wood elf souls.

Other Elves: Most elven souls were consumed by Slaanesh. Tyrion, Teclis, Malerion, and Morathi have been fishing them out of the Chaos god to revive them as new elven peoples. Many, possibly all, have been corrupted in some way by exposure to the chaos god, and most have had their old identities and memories eaten away, but Morathi and Eltharion show that especially strong willed elven souls were capable of surviving the experience with personalities and memories at least somewhat intact. I would not be at all surprised if we saw a new version of Malus Darkblade when the shadow elves eventually get their faction release.

Undead: It's not entirely clear whether the old world undead characters that exist as mortarchs in Age of Sigmar are really themselves, or are merely fragments of Nagash's will remade in his remembered image of them. Arkhan in particular is likely simply a smaller and more contained manifestation of Nagash himself. Either way, though, GW could certainly revive any other old undead characters that they wanted to. Lately they seem more motivated to invent entirely new characters for the undead, and personally I'm ok with that, and don't really expect any more oldhammer undead characters to make the jump, with only one exception. I do still think there's a solid chance we'll see a model for Ushoran.
 
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Raven Torrid

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 3, 2011
567
Croatia
Can't say I exactly know who made it from the Old World to the Age of Sigmar or what are the "rules", but let's say this is a list of characters I would like to rise to prominence & and get new models (except The Green Knight who I think is perfect as it is and is one of the models that drew me to WHFB back in the day). I reckon the list is mostly inspired by models or artwork I was drooling over when I was first introduced to the hobby.

🦇 Abhorash, The Red Duke, Krell
🛡️ The Green Knight and Bretonnia in general
✳️ Aekold Helbrass, Eggrim van Horstmann, Engra Deathsword
🪓 Skarsnik & Gobbla, Gorbad Ironclaw
💰 Borgio the Besieger
🐀 Snikch, Queek
 

Azakael

Skeleton
✳️ Aekold Helbrass, Eggrim van Horstmann, Engra Deathsword

Aekold is the biggest one I'd love to see return. Have him pop up in the realm of Ghyran as a foil for Tzeentch's hate foe - Nurgle. Though I'd also be amused to see Arbaal return as well, show that he was never defeated. (Even if it ends up retconning his death in the End Times stories.)

I would love to see Luthor Huss reforged as something like a Relictor Prime.
 
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Raven Torrid

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 3, 2011
567
Croatia
Though I'd also be amused to see Arbaal return as well, show that he was never defeated.
Arbaal was cool too, he was riding a khorne flesh hound and Khorne would turn him (Arbaal) into a chaos spawn had he lost a fight, right? Would be nice to get an updated version of him as well.
 

Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
1,863
Northern Italy
I would like to see Thorgrim come back. Sigmar could have valid reasons to resurrect the High King of the Dwarfs.

1 - Thorgrim was probably the most reliable ally of the Empire, Sigmar's heirs. He would likely accept the new world's order and give a massive boost to the dwarf faction in cities of Sigmar
2 - with the arrival of new hobgoblins clans, to have stronder dwarfs (the historical enemies of greeskins) would be helpful
3 - Thorgrim is no friend of elves, and sooner or later Sigmar will have to deal with Morathi.
 

Oppenheimer

Varghulf
May 26, 2013
743
Undead: It's not entirely clear whether the old world undead characters that exist as mortarchs in Age of Sigmar are really themselves, or are merely fragments of Nagash's will remade in his remembered image of them. Arkhan in particular is likely simply a smaller and more contained manifestation of Nagash himself. Either way, though, GW could certainly revive any other old undead characters that they wanted to. Lately they seem more motivated to invent entirely new characters for the undead, and personally I'm ok with that, and don't really expect any more oldhammer undead characters to make the jump, with only one exception. I do still think there's a solid chance we'll see a model for Ushoran.
The latest battletome fluff for Neferata, Mannfred and Ushoran made it a bit clearer (clip attached below) that they are the actual souls of those people that Nagash resurrected to continue to serve him. That should mean that lots of others he could do that to as well, but doesn't seem that interested in it since he's busy creating new mortarchs now.

The one that would be tricky is Dieter Helsnicht as he didn't die but instead was left in the Nehekharan underworld. I'm not clear on if that got destroyed along with the Old World or not.

20210720_202358.jpg
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,714
The thing about AoS lore is that it started off very poorly defined and has been continually reshaped over time. Retcons are common, many events are filtered through a lens of myth and legend, and narrators, even seemingly neutral and non-personified ones, are generally unreliable. Does this passage represent the truth of what happened, or is this merely a legend, or even a story that Nagash told his mortarchs?

The newer lore in the SBGL battletome certainly presents itself as more concrete. But I'm inclined to give it some time before before enshrining it as absolute canon over other competing narratives regarding these same events.
 

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