Can Vamps cross running water?

[Nick the Red]

I know that there is a myth that Vampires cannot cross running water.

I asked this question in another section of the forum but it seems like it is better placed here.

I am not considering this limitation for game play but just for fluffiness.

 

[Get of W'soran]

I have used it before just for amusement reasons really, but I believe it is like Garlic, a Myth in the Warhammer rule that is completely untrue.

 

[Master Vampire]

Do vampires have any affinity with water at all? Like sunlight it might be harmful?

 

[Danceman]

It would have to have magical properties. There is mention of this very question in the bestiary in the current book under vampires. Page 35, first section.

 

[Nick the Red]

So moving water wouldnt by rule be an issue but if it were sacred in the vampires mind it could be like a holy symbol. Are there any holy rivers in Brettonia or the Empire? That would make perfect fluff for me.

 

[Gree]

Remember, in Warhammer there are many different types of vampires, what would be a weakness for one would not affect another.

 

[Get of W'soran]

What Gree said is quite true.

I personally think it has to do with the individual vampire's belief system, if they believe it will harm them then yes it will.
If they believe that it won't then it shall have no effect on them what so ever.
I think this is true for almost every vampire weakness with the obvious exception of their Blood Thirst.

 

[Trevy the Great]

As far as I know holy water effects vampires in Warhammer as much as it does those in other mythologies. For this reason then yes, blessed or sacred rivers would stop vampires, but normal water would have no effect.
As for the whole 'belief system' explanation, I think that that is pretty silly. It's almost like saying that a human wouldn't be harmed by fire is it didn't believe the fire could hurt it. In the Matrix, yes, but I don't think that belief in your own invulnerability will make you invincible.

 

[Aspiring Executioner]

I'm with Vekarin here. I haven't seen anywhere suggesting the belief system of Vampires has any influence of what affects them and what doesn't.

I read in either White Dwarf or the Armybook that the stronger, older Vampires can quite easily survive the full effects of the sun, garlic, holy icons etc as much as they don't like doing so. The weaker, younger ones can't take it for too long before they either die or are severly injured.

As for crossing running water I don't think it would have any more effect on Vampires as much as it does Humans. In fact the Vampire would be able to cross fast flowing rivers easier due to their supernatural strength. But Holy rivers might be a problem especially for Thralls and other young ones and maybe even the Lords if it was blessed by a powerful Priest such as an Arch Lector or Grand Theoginist.

Don't see much point in the Empire doing so though as the Vampires they have to worry about are powerful enough to either Fly over or have some other means of crossing.

 

[Count Erick]

As for the whole 'belief system' explanation, I think that that is pretty silly. It's almost like saying that a human wouldn't be harmed by fire is it didn't believe the fire could hurt it. In the Matrix, yes, but I don't think that belief in your own invulnerability will make you invincible.

But humans are not magical creatures. Vampires are, and magic in the Warhammer world is influenced by beliefs.
Also, I remember two instances in Vampire War's that suggested that Vampires have some trouble crossing running water.
The first was on page 192 when Vlad was attacking Altdorf and the city redirected the flow of the river Reik into the path of his army and Skellan made it clear that, although the vampires could not cross the river, that their undead servants could.
The other mention was in page 542 when Mannfred was on a ship traveling on the Reik. "The dirt of unnamed graves had been scattered all across the lower decks. It went some small way to negating the sea on his body." is the exact line

This seems to indicate that running water has some effect on vampires, but not one that cant be overcome in some way.

 

[Danceman]

Some running waters has magical properties, some do not, which is the source of the uncertainty.

The age of the vampire matters as well but holy or blessed water will in most cases burn the vampire or even blind it. Vampire's are VERY vulnerable to 'Light magic', as reflected by the magic section in the rule book.

The faith of an opponent can affect a vampire but this isnt the symbol itself, it is a battle of willpower and through the witch hunters(for example) faith he channels magical energy. Symbols and whatnot mean very little in this fight, it is a battle between the vampire and the hunter. If the hunter is weak in his faith it will have little to no effect. Holy water and similiar objects are not just symbols, they're magical in nature and a very real threat to any vampire. It might not kill the vampire but try fighting someone when blind and/or on fire :lol2:

 

[Trevy the Great]

But humans are not magical creatures. Vampires are, and magic in the Warhammer world is influenced by beliefs.

Not it's not. Magical power stems from raw Chaos energy and warpstone streaming from the rents in reality left after the collapse of the polar warp gates. It is literally energy, not belief at all.

 

[Danceman]

However, belief if strong enough can influence the magical winds through sheer force of will. You do not need to pursue the path of the wizard/sorcerer to tap into it. Chaos itself is strongly influenced by humans, in the form of emotion and tradition. Infact, it is these forces which give physical form to daemons of chaos and have even created gods.

So while you wont be able to channel spells in the true sense you can create a barrier of 'magic' and turn away the vampire.

Chaos is energy of which can be manipulated by taping into the energy directly(to gain more powerful results but also much more dangerous) or the willpower/faith/belief which only really change the flow slightly and rely on raw emotion to manipulate the chaos energies. This way is more or less safe but takes alot of effort and... well, willpower to sustain.

 

[Count Erick]

and magic in the Warhammer world is influenced by beliefs.

Not it's not. Magical power stems from raw Chaos energy and warpstone streaming from the rents in reality left after the collapse of the polar warp gates. It is literally energy, not belief at all.

uuuuuhhh....yes it is. o_o

Where do you think the Chaos Gods came from? or, more specifically, the characteristics that the Chaos Gods are said to have? While the Chaos Gods where spawned by sentient emotion, its the beliefs which give them sentience and influence their personality. The Liber Chaotica series elaborates on this.
A good example of this is Khorne in his aspect of a martial god of honor. The human concept of honor and 'martialness' isn't an emotion at all, but a complex abstract idea that humans have applied to Khorne because he is a god of bloodshed, in all its forms.
Chaos is literally the psychic 'echo' of sentient beings and its their emotions which comprise it, but its sentient thoughts and beliefs that give it form and function.

A direct quote of this can be found in the Beasts of Chaos army book, which specifically states that the reason most Beasts of Chaos have the heads and legs of goats is because that is the form most humans in the Old World imagine Daemons to take.

 

[Lord Fear]

As for the whole 'belief system' explanation, I think that that is pretty silly. It's almost like saying that a human wouldn't be harmed by fire is it didn't believe the fire could hurt it. In the Matrix, yes, but I don't think that belief in your own invulnerability will make you invincible.

If this is your first time experiencing "silly" background concepts then I would like to most heartily welcome you to the ultimate silliness that is the warhammer universe This is exactly the kind of tenet that has been in the warhammer and 40K universe for aeons- like the Ork Speed Freeks, whose belief that "Red Wunz go Fasta" actually manifests itself and makes their bikes go faster indeed!

Similarly this happens with WHFB and especially Vampires. Count Erick describes this further, but it really is this way in the background, and has been for ages. Specifically referring to running water, this is noted in the Vampire Wars book, plus has made in into one or two scenarios in its time- I think a Red Duke or Warmaster scenario had Vamps unable to cross a river. Vampire Wars also has Mannfred teach other Vampires how to avoid the damage from sunlight, through sheer bloody force of will.

 

[Get of W'soran]

Bingo what the Count and Erick says.

Thats the way I roll with it anyway.

The believe system seems to be quite prevalent.

Vampires can, if they believe, resist holy symbols, walk in sunlight, cross running water.

Just as with Faith Priests can subconciously control the winds of magic.
Afterall is that not what happens when a priest with a holy symbol faces of against a vampire, its the priests faith pitted against the vampires will. If the vampires believe that the symbol means nothing is strong then his will would probably prevail where as if the vampire believed the symbol could harm him then his will would be weak.

 

[uga bug]

If Black Library books contain anything of worth, then it seems that as mentioned earlier water affects vampire bloodlinse differently. In Drachenfels theres a small section stating how strigoi vampires won't go near running water. It doesn't state why this is though, just that they won't.

 

[Get of W'soran]

If Black Library books contain anything of worth, then it seems that as mentioned earlier water affects vampire bloodlinse differently. In Drachenfels theres a small section stating how strigoi vampires won't go near running water. It doesn't state why this is though, just that they won't.

I wouldn't use Drachenfels as a reference to fluff or any Genevieve novels, they don't stick with the established (current) fluff.

Theres a few good posts here describing why

 

[Sephiroth Von Carstein]

We have to remember how our worlds differ - a holy river on Earth is one that lots of people believe to be blessed by a god or gods, a holy river in Warhammer-land is a river that HAS been blessed by a god or enchanted with light magic. So I'm not sure how a vampire would chose not to be affected by that.

If you really want for your fluff your vampire not to be able to cross water, do it! I like being liberal with the Warhammer world, there's no fun in abiding by their rules of physics as we have our own to worry about

 

[Ghostmaker]

I can't for the life of me (hur hur) remember the name of the book, but in it the Witch Hunter protagonist and his henchman escapes a pack of Dire-wolves by riding across a bridge. The Dire-wolves proved wholy unable to cross the running water, even though they weren't actually in the water.

 

[Get of W'soran]

I can't for the life of me (hur hur) remember the name of the book, but in it the Witch Hunter protagonist and his henchman escapes a pack of Dire-wolves by riding across a bridge. The Dire-wolves proved wholy unable to cross the running water, even though they weren't actually in the water.

Thats not the witch hunter series is it?

If it is are the Dire Wolves not stopped by a magical ward around the area the witchhunter runs into?

 

[Crovax Accendant Evincar]

Sorry to quibble lol but I'm sure it was Pieter Von Carstein that teaches Skellan to resist the sun,I completly agree that even religious symbols or beliefs is simply subconcioulsy wielding the power of the winds of magic,it even states this in the current army book in the description of vampires and the affect holy symbols have on them,when it comes to running water I would say that it has an affect on most of them,even the most powerfully like mannfred make precautions to stop it's affect,I'm fair sure mannfred is traveling along the reik not sure if this river is blessed or has magical properties tho,the idea of a mighty creature of the night being thwarted by a bit of running water in my mind seems a bit silly tho lol

 

[Sanai]

The Reik is a pretty mighty river. I am sure Manfred would easily conquer a humble stream or brook. The gravedirt is probably more to make mannfred more comfortable, its not like hes at risk of dying or anything. More like a vampiric version of sea sickness in my mind.

 

[Lord Fear]

Sorry to quibble lol but I'm sure it was Pieter Von Carstein that teaches Skellan to resist the sun,

It's been a while since I read the books, but I'm sure that it's Mannfred after he's "rescued" Skellan from altdorf. Pietr von Carstein doesn't really have much of a role in the book other than being killed, does he?

 

[Simon von Carstein]

You're both wrong as its Fritz who teaches Skellan how to survive in the sun.