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Confused/misguided about the Tomb Banshee's Howl

Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
279
#1
My confusion is in 2 parts, Firstly:

Can Skaven use their Strength in Numbers v.s the Howl???
In the FaQ it says they can, but, once I take a look at theSkaven FaQ, this answer makes no sense...

In the Skaven FaQ it states that Strength in numbers:
"Units with the strength in numbers rule add their current rank bonus to their leadership vaule for any LEADERSHIP TEST".

In the VC FaQ, just below the above mentioned question states that the Howl is NOT a Ld test- so why would they get their Strength in Numbers bonus v.s the howl attack?

Second part to my confusion:

If the rules printed in WD (concerning the Banshee's Howl) override/update those printed in the VC Army book- does this mean that when using the Banshee's howl attack against a target, you use the unit's OWN Ld, ignoring modifiers form general, strength in numbers, characters in the unit etc. As no mention of taking into account possible Ld modifiers are made in the new Ghostly Howl rules...

It all makes my head hurt >.<

So- does anyone know the official ruling on this???
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
Staff member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
27,908
#2
Having just read the rules in my own WD, I think they must use their own base leadership:

1 - It is not a Leadership test. No where does it say that. It is an attack that uses the Leadership stat, entirely different. It is the same thing as in the 7th, when you could not use Doom & Darkness to affect the Howl, as it specified that Leadership tests were at -3, rather than the base stat.

2 - Deriving from the above, the Strength in Numbers state they can use this bonus for any Leadership tests. It does not say it modifies the base Leadership stat.

Therefore as the the Banshee's Howl works using, and I quote "the target unit's Leadership", for which the base stat is not affected, and it is not a leadership test, but instead a special attack, it is not subject to the Skaven Strength in Numbers rule.

*Goes to sit in a corner and look smug* xD

That said, this is just my opinion based on the update Banshee's Howl in the WD. In reality as there is a FAQ that states Skaven may use the rule against the Howl (even if it was the old version), most players will stick with that. I wouldn't have thought it would be worth the bother to argue, but you can always check with your opponent beforehand.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
279
#3
Thanks :)

I ask because I took 2 Hero Banshees in my last game, and not a Single wound was inflicted by them (due to needing to roll against Ld 9 because of his general's Ld bubble...) So it got me thinking "Am I playing these rules wrong for them to suck so bad?"

Assuming this is all true- its the same case for the Terrorgheist :)
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
2,887
#4
GW VC FAQ, about half way down page 3 says that Strength in Numbers can be used vs. Banshee Howl.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#5
The Banshee scream is not to be used against Skaven Rank and File. It's meant to be used on expensive per wound models; Monsters, Mounted Chaos Knights, etc. Generally, you will roll a 9 total, which isn't enough to do any wounds on anything in the General's LD bubble. So if you do manage a wound or two, make sure it's against something that counts. Use it against the Hellpit Abomb.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
13
#6
Victims of the Banshee's hellscream don't benefit from the General's Inspiring presence as it is not a leadership test. The only benefit characters will give is to lend their leadership to the unit they are currently in.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
4,036
#7
clever handle said:
Victims of the Banshee's hellscream don't benefit from the General's Inspiring presence as it is not a leadership test. The only benefit characters will give is to lend their leadership to the unit they are currently in.
Actually, the Banshee's Howl specifically states that the target gets to use the general's Ld IIRC. So that's untrue.
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
4,036
#9
SirKoozzi said:
So clearing thing out Banshee's targets can use general LD? Am i right?
Yes, that is correct. In the time between my previous post and now I knocked off and got home so I finally have my army book in hand to confirm it. The target of the Howl may benefit from Inspiring Presence against it.

The Banshee's Howl is actually best for small heavily armored units like Knights, or monsters(who tend to not have a very high Ld stat). For best results you may have to slap Doom and Darkness, or some other kind of Ld penalty on the enemy general first.
 
D

Disciple of Nagash

Guest
#10
The new banshee hero rules do not include that qualifier, so whilst that is applicable to Tomb Banshees, it doesn't apply to the hero Banshee.
 
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
56
#11
not to keep this poor argument going but there is always a lot of confusion when dealing with these special rules . with the new banshee hero I view it as you may use the generals inspiring presence but not the LD of a regular character in the unit . in the BRB it states that units may use the LD of a joining character for leadership tests . so not usable . however for the generals inspiring presence the wording is that a unit within range may use the generals leadership , period . no mention of leadership tests . anyone see an issue with my logic ?
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
279
#12
Sceadu Cille said:
not to keep this poor argument going but there is always a lot of confusion when dealing with these special rules . with the new banshee hero I view it as you may use the generals inspiring presence but not the LD of a regular character in the unit . in the BRB it states that units may use the LD of a joining character for leadership tests . so not usable . however for the generals inspiring presence the wording is that a unit within range may use the generals leadership , period . no mention of leadership tests . anyone see an issue with my logic ?
And since its established that its definitely NOT a Ld TEST- then that logic makes perfect sense :)
 

Sessioni

Grave Guard
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
297
#13
Any updated info about Banshee's ghostly howl against targets within inspiring presence?
Today we played it so that Hydra could use his general's LD, which was 9 at the time. This is very confusing.

edit. Sceadu Cille's logic is convincing, but has anything changed since 2011?
 
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