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''Counts as'' Rule

Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
342
#1
Hi!

I was wondering about wether ''Counts as'' also counts from weapons? Like a hammer ''counting as'' a Sword of Might ect. ?

Thrask
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#3
Sword of Might = Hammer of Squashy Death OK.

But the hammer should not appear to be a two handed weapon otherwise someone might think it a Great Weapon.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#5
I have always considered the effect of the item to be relevant rather than the exact form, so Ring/Talisman/'Pointy hat with moons and stars on'/'Tattoo of my girlfriend' of Protection giving a Ward Save of 6+ works for me, and I think that it gives the opportunity to fluff your army a little.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#6
Talismans, Arcane items, an such are OK with me, I just frown upon the Pocket-knife of Dragon-Slaying or the Dagger of Giant-Neutering. Powerful weapons should appear as such unless the existing item states otherwise.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#7
WHAT!!!!! No Butterknife of Mass Destruction!!! :lol:

I know what you mean, but I think what is sometimes more of an issue is that in order to get to WYSIWYG on your character figures, you need to do a string of conversions to have your vampire with sword/axe/2 handed weapon, possibly carving off shields, etc, creating crowns from green stuff, and other exciting extras, for what may be a single one-off game.

I certainly can't get too excited generally, and definitely do not mind whether it is a Sword of Kings of Axe of Kings that my Wight Lord is weilding.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#8
I don't expect my opponents to have non-weapon, non-armour magic items modelled. I have five different mounted vampires and four on foot, with differenct equipment combinations.
 

Skaramak von Carstein

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,636
#9
I also have quite a few of the combinations covered, but am concious that many players, particularly the younger and/or unwaged ones, would be unable to afford to do so.

I tend to accepting a reasonable compromise (I have a selection of spare weapons and equipment collected over the years which I have been known to lean against a mini on its base where someone insisted on WYSIWYG - One person was trying to be a complete smartarse, so I accepted it on that occasion, on the next occasion, when he tried again, I opened a bits box of painted equipment and a pack of blue-tack {and pointer out that his mage did not appear to be wearing the ring he was claiming - would not normally go there, but he was driving me nuts :lol:} - I did not have the problem again).
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
784
#10
ArchMagosAlchemys said:
Talismans, Arcane items, an such are OK with me, I just frown upon the Pocket-knife of Dragon-Slaying or the Dagger of Giant-Neutering. Powerful weapons should appear as such unless the existing item states otherwise.
You do need to cut a little slack some times though.

Let me put it this way to you. I play Lahmians. If I want to attend any GW run tournaments, it's a good chance that they will expect me to be fielding GW mini's only.

Have you seen the current GW Lahmians? One of the ones on foot has a dagger held behind it's back. The other one on foot and the mounted one are both holding staffs.

Based on the way you see things, I shouldn't be able to take the sword of battle or might as the mini's don't reflect that as such. Whereas, I would have to disagree. I would be fielding the GW mini's. Sure I could either try to convert the mini's or go hunting for some of the older mini's that do have them holding swords etc. but why should I have to go to that sort of trouble and expense? Especially when I could sit there and go 'ok fine. I'll field this Reaper mini that I have where she is holding a big sword. Oh wait, that's right. I'm not allowed to do that in this GW run tournament.'

Do you see my point? Also consider that over here in australia, it is very common for players to swap lists prior to the start of the game to see what each other is fielding and to ask any questions about the items that models have etc. So it wouldn't be a case of any nasty surprises or misleading with the model used.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#11
[attachment=47]

I solve that problem thusly.

The Asrai Foot Character is based on a Waywatcher, but I have a 'plug-in' shield and great weapon to make him an Alter, that is propped up beside him, but mounted on his base. I would accept something similar for your Lahmian.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
784
#12
Well you wouldn't have a choice in terms of accepting my Lahmian the way it was. If you didn't I wouldn't play you. Especially since they have been accepted as they are in tournaments. Magic weapons are as interchangable as any other magic item. If you will accept a model that is not modelled with a book of arkhan or crown of the damned or the cursed book etc, then I expect you to do the same for sword of might/battle/biting blade etc.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#13
That's fine. Evidently your tournaments are different to the ones I have played in and your local 'customs' differ from mine. That's what happens when you have gaming groups all around the world.

If I didn't need my equipment to be as WYSIWYG is it is, I certainly would not have gone to all the trouble of modelling differently equipped characters. Different places, different rules.

BTW, when I said that it was OK with me about Arcane and other items, I didn't mean that it would OK not to have them modelled at all merely that I would be very flexible as to how they should appear. I mean, if a model has the Cloak of Mist and Shadows, it ought to be modelled with something. I play against completely closed lists, so I need SOMETHING.
 

W0lf

Skeleton
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
64
#14
never understood WYSIWYG with wargear.

Its a game for god sake...

If his model has a shield and a axe but hes got a great weapon what the hell diffrence does it make?

Oh noes! he had a great weapon, oh well.
 
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
876
#15
I realize that each gaming group has it's WYSIWYG standards. When I play against completely closed lists, I expect to be able to have some clue when I look at a model what it might be armed or equipped with. That's the price you must pay when you won't let me look at your list before battle. When someone puts down three identical fire mage models, how do I tell which one to try and kill with my mage hunters if I want to take out the one with the Rod of Power?

If I were playing with open lists, things would be different. Things would also be different if I were visiting you,; I would conform to local customs if possible. If you visited me, I would extend you the normal courtesy of cutting you a lot of slack. However, if you played with us regularly, we would expect you to have your models painted and WYSIWYG, like everyone else.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#16
Interesting points. For obvious items, I answer all questions. Eg., these guys have great weapons with shields strapped to their backs.

As for talismans, rings, etc, I'd make the case they're too small to see. Or maybe my guy is wearing gloves. Or has the talisman of protection under their shirt. I suppose everyone draws their line as to whats obvious and whats not in a different place, and whether anything non-weapon can use the Counts as Rule. For our group, weapons and armour you have to state (light, heavy), and troop type. There are no Spoons of Might or Gromil T-Shirts.

Talismans, runes, aren't very obvious and I have yet to see a warhammer model with a telescope. Besides, what use would be that Skull Staff that tells you all magic in a 12" radius be? But Arch Magos is correct, in that it's whatever the accepted customs are, whether it's a friendly game or tournament.
 
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