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Couple Questions on Warriors of Chaos

Corien Sumatris

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True Blood
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Jul 3, 2013
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#1
Hey, So I'm planning on starting a warriors of chaos army and had a couple of questions on them.

1. Are Shaggoths good?
2. Are Warshrines good?
3. What base size is the Hell Cannon on?
4. Are Hell Cannons good?
5. What would be cool legs for chosen? I'm planning on using the Blood Angel Sanguinian Guard torso's (with modeling adjustments) but I'm not sure which legs would look right underneath them.
6. Are Deamon Princes all that they're cracked up to be?

I guess a couple of questions turned into 6 so ..... more than a couple of questions.
 

Corien Sumatris

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#5
I don't own the book yet. What do you mean by baby maker list. Does the shrine not just give your dudes a random buff anymore?
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
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123
#10
My friend, who I play about every other week, plays WoC. Shaggoths are pretty scary.

I've had him in my flank quite a few times and he hits like a truck. He's kill-able but he's also good at positioning and has high weapon skill and strength to capitalize when you get in. I'd rate him as "good" but not essential. His model is awesome, though, and if you want to take him you can make him work.
 

Duluoz

Skeleton
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
52
#11
1. Are Shaggoths good?

Yes and no. Large target without any real saves, a lot of points in an already elite army. Certainly fun, not so competitive.

2. Are Warshrines good?

I'd learn more toward the 'no' here. They CAN be good, but you have to seriously invest in them to make them so. Warshrines allow an extra roll on the Eye of the Gods table within a certain range (I think its 12") - which buffs Chaos Champions after they kill enemy champions - and the warriors called Chosen, a special choice, start the game with a buff. Yes one buff makes you a Daemon Prince, but another makes you a spawn. It's Chaos.

If you want to take a warshine, don't bother with warriors in your core. The Chosen aren't much better at all than a warrior stat wise, and preform the same role, albeit with a buff. Take Chariots/Dogs/Marauder horsemen, and then blocks of Chosen as your (killy) anvil to earn the Warshrines pay.

So you can already see how expensive it works out to be. The Warshrine is fun, and a cool idea, but its quite gimicky. You have to use your special choices to truly justify it, and your main core unit (chaos warriors) then has little to no purpose. Moreover, other than warriors, the core choices are nowhere near as good, barring chariots, and even then the special choice chariot for 10 points more is far better, in any shape or form. Marauders are awful, Marauder Horsemen can't compete with the special Fast Cav choice, dogs are simply Dogs, and again the Chaos Chariot loses out mostly to the Gorebeast Chariot.

On the good side, the Warshrine is hella strong. It will hardly ever die. Poor opponents may concentrate fire on it, but others who have played it before probably won't. It's just not worth the investment.

3. What base size is the Hell Cannon on?
As above

4. Are Hell Cannons good?

Ever single Chaos list 1000 points+ should have one. I take two whenever I can. It's simply excellent. It has a pretty bad misfire chart but when it hits, it hits, and it's a bloody monster in CC. No other war machines compare!

5. What would be cool legs for chosen? I'm planning on using the Blood Angel Sanguinian Guard torso's (with modeling adjustments) but I'm not sure which legs would look right underneath them.

Sounds cool!

6. Are Deamon Princes all that they're cracked up to be?

No. Cost more than a Chaos Lord and a Chaos Lord can preform any role better. Your DP can be a wizard, but then you're making some serious points investment in your large target. Best route points wise is a Sorcerer Lord, Level 4, and exalted heroes made for CC.


The main things to remember with Chaos are twofold: 1. It's a very, very elite army. You will almost always be outnumbered. Units must earn their points value back. 2. Players will know exactly what your game plan is: get into CC. Very good opponents will do everything they can to avoid it, whittle you down, and dominate magic.

It usually comes down to 'can my units get into CC while they're still effective?' if yes, Chaos mostly emerge the victor. This is why Sorcerer lords are taken so often, as the little shooting Chaos has, makes their magic far more potent, and their Sorcerer's can hold their own in combat.

A good Chaos player will have several units preforming several different functions (CC, Warmachine hunting, sniping etc) which, when used as a whole, is to do everything they can to get their units in CC without taking too much damage. We can't lose units like other races such as Skaven, Empire etc and carry on; every crippled unit is a huge blow to us.

Played Chaos for years so if you have any Q's feel free to PM me! My answers certainly aren't as fun but they're my honest experience.My best overall advice is build your army and see what you like the best!
 

Johnny-Crass

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#12
Disagree strongly on 6 mate. The slaanesh party prince can dismantle a entire army on his lonesome. Lore of Slaanesh is the best lore in the game for a reason.

As for the hellcannon I find it lost so much in tbe book change.
 

Duluoz

Skeleton
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Jul 31, 2013
Messages
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#13
I've struggled, and yet to see, the DP earn his points back after being fully kitted out. He just attracts every single ranged weapon to him, and I've found Slaanesh's lore and mark to be the weakest. The ASL spells are nice and can hurt elves, but otherwise, Nurgle/Death has preformed far superior in my experience.

That being said whats the Slaanesh prince party? Not heard that one!

The Hellcannon has suffered with the book change but its still an very good option. It's a daemonic war machine, and it's gone from being essential to excellent, still hell'uva powerful. Also, Chaos don't get shooting, so it gives greater tactical versatility in a mono-tactical army. It's great being able to shoot the elites of the enemy and let the warriors do their butcher's work.
 

Johnny-Crass

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#14
A lore about leadership and movement control, what is not to love? Knowing five spells and holding a charmed shield keeps him alive through the cannons. Slaanesh is not only the strongest lore but the strongest mark. Gives the whole army independence from leadership and adding speed to boot.
 

Duluoz

Skeleton
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Jul 31, 2013
Messages
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#15
Because it's near completely wasted - you're paying for a mark that grants psychological benefits in an already high leadership army. And add in the general's leadership bubble, you have even higher leadership.

Compared to this, you have other marks that grant either +1 attack (for an army dedicated to CC), a -1 to hit for the enemy, or a +1 stackable ward save. So with any of them your warriors (for example) gain +1 attack, are -1 to hit, or get a 3+/5+ armour and parry ward save, compared to Slaanesh's mark which grants leadership benefits to a high leadership army. It's the cheapest mark for a reason.

The movement bonus only applies to very specific units, such as the spawns. It does nothing for meat-and-bones of your army.

Don't get me wrong, it has its uses. Chaos Knights benefit from it as they'll often be flanking near the board edge, the Hellstriders are good (not great) fast cav. But it is by far the weakest of the four marks available. Again, its cheap for a reason, because the benefits reflect the cost.

The the DP set up sounds ok for an initial attack but then when in CC, what then? He can't take on elites by himself, sure he'll get some kills but he needs support majorly. Slaanesh isn't a combat lore or mark, and that's what a DP is. There's nothing that set up does that a Sorcerer Lord and CC exalted can't do, for cheaper, and harder to kill as they're not large targets, and benefit from unit bunkers.
 

Johnny-Crass

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#16
Daemon prince is not a large target ;)

Also warriors have poor leadership of 7-8 with no rerolls besides a bsb who often I leave at home in favour of another chimera. With fast cav and chariots filling up the core panic is bound to happen and when it does nurgle and tEentch mean jack all. As for khorne any player worth his salt with turn forced overruns into a curse for you. Slaanesh is the mark of control, double flees and reliability which i would rather have than any combat gimic. As you said the army can fight so why add more fuel to that fire?

As for the prince in close combat Choir is a hex spell as is Phantasmagoria and with allure of slaanesh I could care less about enemy elites. He is a swiss army knife unlike the lord or the sorcerer.

Slaanesh is the best mark due to making the army run like clockwork. Hyper aggressive woodelves
 

The Sun King

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#17
I'm with Johnny on this one, to the untrained eye there is so much promise in the Nurgle mark... but it's "win-more", what you really need is Slaaneshi reliability :)
 

Corien Sumatris

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#18
Wow, I'm glad I decided to go with Slaanesh then! I wanted to start this whole army because I got my hands on a Kingdom Death Wet Nurse (She will be a shaggoth). So marauders are bad? I would think a fairly cheap expendable rank and file would help the army. Since you will be so outnumbered odds are that the opponent will have more fighting units then you, so a tarpit of sorts will give you time and help you avoid flank charges. Also, 3,000 is our main army size (Theres a GT in our city, so we all usually play those rules). So should I put 750 points into staight chariots and chaff? Dogs are 15 slaves for 5, and chariots are pretty cheap too (Don't have the book with so don't know the cost of them). Are Chimera good? I skimmed them and figured since I would be running a Prince, a Shaggoth, and a Hellcannon that more large mosters wouldn't benefit me as much as infintry.

Side note: Because I have 750 for lords my plan was to take a DP but only keep him a level 1 on slaanesh (Mainly to try and get a spell off because the attribute is amazing) and I still had points for a level 4 sorcerer lord. The level 4 prince makes me nervous because I have seen way to many level 4's sucked into the warp and there goes your 600 point model.
 

Johnny-Crass

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#19
Chimeras are really strong for their points. And marauders are better on a pony than on foot. Also make sure your lvl4 is fast. Slaanesh needs to grt stuck in close for the magic to work.
 

Corien Sumatris

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#20
Good to know!

So do you think it's not to terrible to have a Sorcerer and a prince? or is it better to have the prince as a lvl 4 and forget the sorcerer?
 

Corien Sumatris

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#22
Oh yeah, That thing is awesome. I just read through the book last night so I don't know to to much but I think i'm starting to get the hang of it.
 

Duluoz

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#23
Well I must admit, I never thought of using Slaanesh that way. I still believe the Tzeentch Warriors are a great anvil, and the Nurgle+GW combo is also a strong one, but you make a very good case for Slaanesh and it's something I'll certainly try out. In regards to the Khorne, I agree about the overrun. A unit of 18 Halberds can be incredibly killy however, I'd try them if you haven't - stick them in the center so you can support their flanks.

The Chimeria is a great monster, especially for its points cost. Two working side by side can be lethal.

And I checked the book - well damn me, the Daemon Prince isn't a large target?! Goddamn, you're right there. Increases his lifespan!

Edit: The issue with Marauders is to make them halfway decent you need to invest in either armour/shields or Flails/GW. By that time you're adding up the points and for a decent sized effective unit, it's hard to justify them compared to a unit of warriors. The Horsemen are better value for points by far.
 

Swaiper

Black Knight
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Aug 9, 2012
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#24
Do you use Warriors at all in this Slaanesh list of yours johnny or is it just chaff hounds, chariots and marauder horsemen?
 
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