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Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
Given how OP that banner seems how would you deal with a unit of 30-40 while lions with the banner and maybe a character or two thrown in there.

We won't be able to use terrorgheist, etherals or a blender lord unless we go without magic weapons and that doesn't seem like a good idea.
Most spells are out of course and given how good I high elves have I would say only dwellers will work.

Any idéas?
 

Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
It gives the unit a 2++ Ward save against spells, magic weapons and magic attacks for 25 skavenslaves.
Also Gw felt that wasn't quite good enough so dragons within 12''(I think) are stubborn too.
 

Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
geordieclubba said:
Great weapon?
Potion of strength with red fury would proberly do well

Yes that is one way of doing it, albeit a bit risky.
I don't really like using GW om my vamps though as I loose ASF and re-rolls but if there are no other options...

I wonder how a large unit of CH would fare. CH has lately been my go to unit for pretty much anything.
 

Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
Johnny-Crass said:
Avoid the unit

Hmm yeah I guess but if it's a death star with a mage lord in it it will be alot of points in there.
I think alot of people will put a mage lord in the unit with the banner to avoid most bad effects of miscasts too. To avoid such a unit might be costly.
 
Feb 1, 2013
139
Wisconsin
Miscasts don't count as magical per FAQ, so a big template of explody doom will still hurt them.

As for CH, a unit of 8 probably wouldn't want to go toe-to-toe with 40 WL. Elves will strike first with 40 S6 attacks, dealing 8-9 wounds after Regen. If they can get that 9th wound it drops you to only 5 CH attacking back, which should lead to about 7-8 deal WL. They'll have a banner and two ranks on you, so likely a few more wounds due to crumbling. But if you can get some buffs/debuffs off or hit them in the flank it shouldn't go too badly.
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Jan 25, 2012
6,633
California
Meh we got enough chaff too avoid a big horde and since WL dont have asf varghulfs and varghiests can assassinate the wizards.
 

Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
Johnny-Crass said:
Meh we got enough chaff too avoid a big horde and since WL dont have asf varghulfs and varghiests can assassinate the wizards.

But don't they still strike at their I of 5?
I thought they still had ASF but that it now is negated by the greatweapons ASL. Did I understand it wrong?
 

Abhorash.

Grave Guard
Apr 28, 2009
282
Minnesota
You are correct; as far as I know (still waiting for my book) Swordmasters and White Lions strike at I5 with great weapons. Which is still good. However the loss of re-rolls makes them slightly less deadly; except now martial prowess is army wide.
 

Mr. West

Lahmian Tomb Guard
Mar 26, 2013
242
NoisyAssassin said:
Miscasts don't count as magical per FAQ ...

Wrong.

Latest FAQ ...

Q: What are magical attacks ? (p.68)
A: All attacks made by spells and magic items are considered to be magical attacks, as are all attacks that are specifially noted to be magical attacks. Shots fired from magical items are also considered to be magical attacks, unless their description specifically states otherwise. Hits inflicted by rolls on the Miscast table are treates as magical attacks.


There you have it.
Now, consider what havoc a Loremaster or Archmage attached to a unit of Lions of Phoenix Guard with the Banner of the World Dragon might be able to cause.

So, yeah, Johnny is right ... best option is to avoid this unit like the plague.
 

Darbagal

Ghoul
Jan 24, 2008
164
My best option at this point

1) become a rat
2) cast 13th spell or whither 3 times.

I think that WoC also has a spell that ca do it (take a T test or die without any saves)

If you happen to play anoher HE army you can iuse the spell that destroys magical items.

Dwellers should hurt them as have been mentioned before but we dont have access to it.

Our options are a bit more limited and especially if there is a dragon on the board as well. Maybe get ASF on one of our units and then try to kill the mage / characters in the unit.
 

TMS

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Nov 26, 2008
4,662
Sweden
Going without a magic weapon on the vampire lord wouldn't work out that badly, I think. The elves are T3 with a 5+ save, they'll die right out against the basic S5. A ghoul king might be preferable here as long as the horde isn't made of swordmasters (WS6 and all that, plus actual hatred) since then your mundane attacks would also be poisoned. You might want to bring some wight kings into combat with you to stop the enemy from locking your blender in a challenge with basic strength, and if the elf unit is made of dragon princes their killing blow can help your lord pick them off a bit quicker despite the armour.
 

Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
The problem with these options are the counter attacks imo it's pretty risky to send you lord in against those S6 attacks, in case of white lions. Your as will not be that great and 4++ is always a risk.

Btw anyone know if it will be possible for HE to put the everqueen in such a unit? She is said to give 5++ ward to any unit she joins. That could double the fun.
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Apr 27, 2012
873
MasterSpark said:
Going without a magic weapon on the vampire lord wouldn't work out that badly, I think. The elves are T3 with a 5+ save, they'll die right out against the basic S5.

Trouble is, that's only against Elves.

Unless you're tailoring your list against them, you'll surely want a magic weapon on your lord, in case you're not facing elves?

And, let's be honest here; having to go without magic weapons on our expensive lords, just because of a 50pt banner in one army, is one Hell of a blow to us.
 

Zhatan

Varghulf
Feb 6, 2011
798
Sweden
Vipoid said:
MasterSpark said:
Going without a magic weapon on the vampire lord wouldn't work out that badly, I think. The elves are T3 with a 5+ save, they'll die right out against the basic S5.

Trouble is, that's only against Elves.

Unless you're tailoring your list against them, you'll surely want a magic weapon on your lord, in case you're not facing elves?

And, let's be honest here; having to go without magic weapons on our expensive lords, just because of a 50pt banner in one army, is one Hell of a blow to us.

Yeah I agree. Seems like alot of armies have to make a big adjustment to combat this item.
 

eggsPR

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 28, 2011
1,136
Dublin
Watch the book come out and it's just 2+ vs magic in the magic phase... and we'll all laugh about the broken rumors :)

How could they let in an item giving an item with a 2+ vs all attacks against an entire army (DoC)? I honestly don't buy it.
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Apr 27, 2012
873
eggspr said:
How could they let in an item giving an item with a 2+ vs all attacks against an entire army (DoC)? I honestly don't buy it.

Any time I think "That's way too good/broken - that can't possibly be right", I just look at the author. If it's ward, then the rumours are either true, or they're not true... but the item is even more broken than the rumours suggested.
 

TMS

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Nov 26, 2008
4,662
Sweden
Zhatan said:
Yeah I agree. Seems like alot of armies have to make a big adjustment to combat this item.

If the rumours turn out to be true, then that's probably what will need to happen since High Elves are usually popular. Alternative approaches might be throwing on a potion of strength on the lord for when you need the strength, or go with a great weapon and count on magic to give you re-rolls in combat. It's such a shame that our characters can't take mundane halberds. :thumbsdown:
 

Bounce

Varghulf
May 3, 2012
746
If they now strike at I5 you could use 4 Vampires with additional weapons and red fury. 20 attacks hitting on 3's wounding on 2's no saves. Kills 11. 11 more attacks kills another 6. 17 dead white lions before they get to attack for 632 points.
 

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