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Death VS Sigmarines

Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#1
Hello everyone new player of AoS after some people at my local hobby cafe recruited me.

I am currently holding an army of 40 skeleton warriors, 40 zombies, 10 hexwraiths and Mannfred-Mortarch of Night.

I would like to ask you tips and strategies particulary VS Sigmarines (uhhh) and how to improve my army after this point considering tomb kings are gone...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
12
#2
I just played my first game against Stormcast yesterday! What really worked for me was that I simply outnumbered them; they couldn't kill my skeletons and zombies fast enough to make a difference. I just parked the two blobs on objectives and it was basically game over from that point.

I highly recommend a Necromancer and Vampire Lord to boost the hordes. The Hexwraiths and Mannfred fill the quick reaction/hammer blow aspect of your force well. Taking it to a higher points level, I'd recommend another big monster and some more cavalry. Spirit Hosts are good for tarpitting big Stormcast stuff because they ignore rend and deal mortal wounds.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#3
I will defenitely get some heroes for my ranks. Necromancer and Vampire lord are the top picks but a wight king with a black axe or a banshee looks tempting too. Do you have any experience with those? I am also considering a couple morghast archai to give those heavy hitting Sigmarines a taste of their own medicine!
 

Oppenheimer

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
556
#4
Mannfred isn't the Mortarch of sacrament so I'm not sure if you mean Arkhan?

Anyway, skeletons should be fielded in a large group and keep a hero in range too give them +1 to hit. Give them spears to get in more attacks.

Zombies are great to satisfy battleline requirements as they can merge into one unit but skeletons are more powerful because of the many attacks.

Hexwraiths are good to send against enemies with rend as they are immune. Don't worry about their fly over. It's not very good.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#5
My bad on the Mortarch thing I will edit it. My skeletons all have the sword and shield, that 5+ to hit of the spear just hurts my feelings and I generally try to send them to targets that occupy a lot of space so that their majority can attack even without a buff. The way a friend showed me to use zombies is to initially deploy them as 4x10 all units with a standar beared as fodder (that will regenerate D6x4) and when they get close to merge them and attack while taking advantage of their "Dragged Down and Torn Apart".
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
12
#6
I have not used a WK or Banshee. In my eyes our foot heroes aren't tough enough to be anything more than support characters. For brawlers I would go with a VL on ZD or AT, as for the same price as a Necro or WK we can get three Crypt Horrors and they're gonna smash more stuff than any lone hero would.
 

Oppenheimer

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
556
#7
The problem I have with crypt shields is rend. Against -1 rend their saves go from 5+ to nothing. Makes giving them a shield pointless.
Also the 5+ to hit is actually 4+ to hit because you'll always want to keep a death hero within 18". So it's not so bad.
That said if you can get 30 skeletons all base to base with a model then there's no reason for the range, but with only a 4" move and 3" pile in I've never been able to do that much.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,245
#8
On Skeleton Warriors:
Swords and Shields work fine if you deploy / move them in 2 ranks. That widens the unit, but lets you cover more ground. Wide units are very VERY succeptible to being flanked by 2 units, even small ones, so beware.

Having 3x10 unit with Spears is much more manageable in size, can defend well and charge the same, and tackle much smaller sized enemies without being too disperse to break the Unit's coherency when piling-in to attack (remember you can't if that movement would break the 1'' distance between all unit's members).

Now, to upgrade your army, consider going for either a:

- Toolbox army, with lots of different units (the ones you like the most), then a Vampire Lord hero should be your choice to go. Either on foot, on a horse or with wings should do. Position him wisely, because he/she isn't as tanky as other heroes. Vampire Lord on a Zombie Dragon is a powerful general, albeit costly in points.

- Specific army, say Deathrattle, then you should really get Wight Kings (both with Black Axe and with the Infernal Standard). A necromancer is a must in an army like this, so save up for one as well!

Deadwalkers are still not really powerful, and going for Flesh-Eaters will require you to basically buy all of them to get started.

Finally, Hexwraiths, Banshees and all ghosts in general are nice to include as support of your other troops. I've had a really good experience with my Banshees screaming and striking at the heart of other heroes, but that is just a personal opinion.

If you really want a brutal Nighthaunt, then get a Mounrgul!! one of the tankiest creatures we have, and brutal in combat.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#9
Thank you all for you comments. The way I play my skeletons is by using them in 2 lines of 20 and always try to use Vanhel's danse macabre on them to pile in and attack twice. Also I dont think you have a choice to carry something else instead of crypt shields on them I don't see what else they could take. My vampire lord tried to take on a Lord-Celestant 1 on 1 once..... it didn't go so well so I understand what you mean by saying he's not as tanky as other heroes. By looking at the specific armies you can choose in death the choices are pretty bad in my opinion. If you want to declare a single allegiance you almost have to go with flesh eater courts because everyone else barely has a wide array of units to choose and build an army from hence my use of 1x40 unit of skeletons and 4x10 (in the beggining) units of zombies to cover up the battleline tax. The banshees Demian mention also intigue me a lot. Their warscroll looks rather interesting especially if you get lucky with the rolls! Does anyone have any experience with Morghasts Archai/harbingers?
 

Oppenheimer

Crypt Horror
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
556
#10
You're right about the crypt shields. I confused Grave Guard with skeletons for a moment and thought they were not on the spearmen version. Sorry about that!

Harbingers are one of the only reasons to summon in matched play. With the 3 die 9" charge will probably still work right after summoning. They're very expensive points wise though so leaving that many points for reinforcement points is tough.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,245
#11
I didn't mean to necessarily have to declare an Allegiance in my suggestions.

Since most factions lack decent wizards, and Necromancers have a wide range of models they can influence with VDM, I just mean you should concentrate your forces on synergies from the different sub-factions we have.

Deathrattle is very very powerful with the huge amount of Skeleton units and Arkhan the Black being able to easily support it magic-wise. Even for summoning, he's awesome, just not take him as your general (there are better options for that). Black Axe Wight King and an Infernal Standard Wight King are a nice combo if you're using single-wound models, like Grave Guard, that'll have the most opportunities to absorb damage and deal quite some more in return. Although you're right, half the Deathrattler's power is lost with the discontinuing of the Tomb Kings, but still a very viable army there.

I just recently tried a Soulblight (mostly) army, and it is awesome! Blood Knights eviscerate almost everything on the charge, but you need to retreat them each other turn so they can really get in and dish some pain. Zombie Dragon VL with Red Fury is quite brutal and tankier than you would think! Vargheists are the odd-ish thing there. They can munch some wounds off a Hero, but they get much better chances just crashing them into normal 1-wound infantry and hoping to roll well with their frenzy so they can dish out some pain before getting hacked to pieces. Not many buffs you can give them anyways. The Coven Throne for that annoying deathstar unit/monster that you want to Beguile.

All in all, I like Vampiric side of the Death faction, but it is a bit expensive to acquire (2 units of 5 Blood Knights are really cool, but they are too pricey!)
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#12
I recently played a match with 20 skeletons, 20 zombies, 10 hexwraiths, a necromancer, a vampire lord and Mannfred(Commander) VS a destruction Orc army (dont know the exact models but it was 1040 vs 1020 point). Hexwraiths and Mannfred destroyed everything with a honorable mention to the skeletons serving as a meatshield(more like bone-shield) for the hordes of orcs leaving them to the mercy of the ethereal but I strongly believe it was due to the fact GW hasn't updated those old orcs for a long time and just released Ironjawz instead. I was supposed to play a match with the Sigmarine guy today but my neck decided otherwise so I will be spending the next few days running to doctors and doing MRIs. I will update as soon as play that promised match and see what I lack because I'm pretty sure I will lose. For now the plan is to buy a vampire lord and a necromancer of my own (been playing with borrowed units of another Death guy) and maybe a couple of morghast or even a mourngul if I manage to convince myself to spend 40 pounds = ~50 euros for that thing.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#13
I agree with Undead4Life about anti-stormcast tactics. While powerful. they are not very numerous, and in many missions the bigger unit claims objective. Just sit down on it, fighting back a bit. With banner reanimation and Deathless minions battle trait (+ Ruler of the Night possibly), you will win before you run out of infantry. Beware of the stormcast archers, though - they can kill your Mannfred rather quickly.

Mournghoul is pure gold, even at 400 pts. Cast Arcane Shield on it, keep a hero behind it, and it will never die (which does not equal victory, btw - remember that you need numerous infantry and heroes to claim objectives).
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#15
What about deathmatch-like scenarios like "Kill the beast" ? You really cant avoid picking up fights there :tongue:
Well, if you play such a scenario, take minimum zombies for battleline, and a lot of rending. You will need it to punch through 4+ with re-rolls of 1.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#17
I have 10 Hexwraiths with rend but what other things could be useful for rending?
If we speak of your specific collection, then Mannfred has good Rend on his mount.

If you ask about the Death fraction in general, then I would recommend a zombie dragon/terrorgheist with riders. Their maw attacks have good Rend, and both have ranged attacks that are effective against Stormhosts.

If these are too much for you, even a single Cairn Wraith or Tomb Banshee moving inside a zombie unit can help, and you can summon them if you like (banshee is really worth summoning, IMO).
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
46
#18
Morghast Archai also have good rend

ans don't forget mortal wounds! :tongue: spirit host are amazing for tanking hits and delivering some mortal wounds at each combat phase

mortis engine against low leadership/living enemy is a good way to produce mortal wounds

and magic can throw a few mortal wounds too
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#19
Back at it after a long time. After a few fights with my army now I have to face the problem of lacking in ranged attacks/artillery. Are there any good tactics to counter war machines (34" caliber) or missile units (24" range) other than letting them mow on me? In the recent games of a 1v1 Stormcast vs Death I lost Mannfred in the first round after immense shooting and in a 1v1v1v1 king of the hill between ironjawz, stormcasts,death and dark elves their reaper bolt thrower destroyed 11 of my cute skeletons in one turn. My army for update currently consists of Mannfred,40 skeletons, 40 zombies, 1 necromancer, 1 cairn wraith, 1 tomb bansee, 10 hexwraiths, 3 spirit hosts, a borrowed vampire lord and I have 2 morghasts (most likely archai) currently not assembled yet and a vampire lord on zombie dragon ordered.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#20
Sadly, the are no quality shooting in Death faction. You can try Screaming Skull Catapults + Necrotects. They are not very impressive, however, their main function being delivering -2 Bravery to enemy. There are skeleton archers too, but with no Rend, they won't kill much besides light infantry.
However, it is not nessessary to answer shooting with shooting.

1. VL on zombo dragon - with move 14" while healthy and flying, he can quickly reach the shooters and eat them for dinner, or just kill artillery crewmen with his breath weapon. No crew means no shooting!

2. Bat swarms. -1 to shooting aura will cripple most shooting, and they can heal themselves when they reach melee. You can summon them too, it is not a terrible idea.

3. Summon TK carrion or morghast harbingers, their ability helps them to charge successfully right agter summonong, giving you a 27" threat range to any of your casters (and zombo dragon lord is a caster too).
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#21
I thought about making the morghasts harbingers and summoning-3x D6 charging but that would mean to roll a 10 in casting plus having 2 morghasts alone and far out from any support for at least one turn.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#22
I thought about making the morghasts harbingers and summoning-3x D6 charging but that would mean to roll a 10 in casting plus having 2 morghasts alone and far out from any support for at least one turn.
Morghasts are summoned on a 7+. You don't need a 10.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
10
#23
Whooops my bad you're right. That would be a good reason to make the Archai and not Harbringers as I consider the damage output of the latter superior.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
179
#24
Whooops my bad you're right. That would be a good reason to make the Archai and not Harbringers as I consider the damage output of the latter superior.
And I agree with you regarding the damage output.

I can only recommend you to magnetize hands, so you will be able to swap them to keep acess to both units.
 
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