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Cromwell

Zombie
Sep 21, 2008
23
Hey all,

Just wondered what everyones thoughts on the Drakenhof banner are. Clearly, in an expensive unit (GG, BK, etc) the anti-crumbling capabilities are pretty nice even without the normal regen saves against shooting and combat wounds, but is it worth the cost? Looking forward to hear your views.
 

dabber

Ghoul
Sep 2, 2008
196
It is the first 100+ point banner in Warhammer that is actually too powerful. It appears in almost every seriously powerful tournament army.
 

Cromwell

Zombie
Sep 21, 2008
23
Well that was a clear response dabber. I was thinking myself that it kinds of depends on the units. For example, say you stick it in a unit of 20 GG with GW. If you divide the banners cost by 20 it is 6.25 pts per model. If it was in a unit of 5 BK you are paying 25 pts per model for regen. I think that for the BK its not as over powered as it is for the GG. But, I take your point that it is a "good" item.
 

assimilation

Ghoul
Apr 8, 2008
144
Perth
Also consider though that to restore 6 models in GG, it can happen with between 1-6 castings of invocation. 3 less models dying means probably 1 less invocation required, so it didn't save that much of your magic attention.

3 BK requires 3 castings of invocation, meaning that a whole magic phase from a single vamp is required at the very least, assuming they stop some. The banner halves the number of invocations that are required upon the unit.

Also, in your fearsome knights, you are likely to take hits that negate the AS of them, be it bolt-throwers or other high strength attacks. Regen can negate the effects of this somewhat. Graveguard are much less likely to suffer a bolt-thrower shot, or a shot from a cannon, or most other things that completely ignore armour.
 

darebear

Ghoul
Oct 24, 2008
146
Having just faced the new Warriors of Chaos I can say that the banner is very necessary against the new Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors. They all have two attacks now and the Knights have magical attacks, cause fear, are WS 6 and can upgrade to lances. Add in Khorne frenzy and they are equal to or superior to Blood Knights (and they dont die in combat res or retreat due to fear). Add in a fighty Chaos character and they are death incarnate.

Therefore I say: Drakenhof all the Way!
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 26, 2007
2,369
darebear said:
Having just faced the new Warriors of Chaos I can say that the banner is very necessary against the new Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors.
Crazy talk. Just learn to play better.
 

Guanyin

Zombie
Oct 21, 2008
18
There is just to much fire attacks around nowadays, I never take this one. It's great when it works sure, but when there is fire coming you just spent loads of points on nothing.
 

Fodderboy

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jul 24, 2008
2,238
'Naki, New Zealand
N.I.B. said:
Crazy talk. Just learn to play better.

I have to admit I was pretty bummed when two vampire commanders whent toe-to-toe and I lost out, causing dramatic crumblage.

I learned that a casty hero vs casty hero is a dubious prospect at best, and so will try even harder not to let my bunker take a hit.

Since then I have not taken a loss. Then again, I haven't played that same person again.

I totally agree with her Nibs, adapt or lose. Strategy and tactics do require thought, after all.
 

Xaradox

Zombie
Nov 4, 2008
12
So then would u use this banner in say a 20+ power unit of GG with a hero or 2 in it, or would u use the banner with your bloodknights?
 

Jack Shrapnel

Black Knight
Jan 12, 2008
302
Kingston, ON
In my tournament list I regularly field the big block of grave guard, wight king BSB and fighty vamp with the banner of the barrows and the drakenhoff banner.... sure it's a point sink... sure it's all my eggs in one basket...

but that's one tough basket....

I find the extra protection vs. crumbling, and extra protection for two characters (and wight king bsb's are just all sorts of awesome already) has saved my vampiric butt several times over...

sure somebody might have flaming attacks... but it's a rare army that has it in enough volume to negate the protection the drakenhoff banner gives verses everything else.... and when the banner fails to protect, can just raise the block back...

One crucial thing that the banner does is make it very very difficult to bring the whole unit down before I can raise it back up to strength... it allows me to weather a pretty substantial storm and still make it to my next magic phase - even if I've gotten myself in a pretty dire situation...

so for the versatility and protection against most everything, (and my vamp having an AS, ward AND regen save) - It's incredibly powerful and worth the points....
 

N1AK

Vampire Count
True Blood
Apr 21, 2008
1,252
darebear said:
Add in Khorne frenzy and they are equal to or superior to Blood Knights (and they dont die in combat res or retreat due to fear). Add in a fighty Chaos character and they are death incarnate.

They also can't be invocated ;) and frankly even with the mark of Khorne they aren't as good as Blood Knights.
- - -

The Drakenhoff is well worth its points. At tournament level people have realised the power of Regen and especially with many Daemon armies fielding so many fire based attacks the meta-game has balanced it out a little.
 

Cromenon

Necromancer
Feb 10, 2008
822
Well then, let me be the first who actually doesn't like the Drakenhoff...

Why I don't take it:
- It's pricy. 125 points + BSB are a lot of points.
- Your BSB can't take any magic items.
=> if someone KillingBlows your BSB, you're doomed. No AS, no regen. And there are some things with Killing Blow nowadays...
 

dabber

Ghoul
Sep 2, 2008
196
The Drakenhoff banner is close to an auto-win against an army book made before 2008. Killing blow is rare, flaming attacks are rare ... they pretty much cannot hurt the unit. Drakenhoff Black Knights facing an older book that has Spirit of the Forge are vaguely killable, but even they need a good roll. But Cromenon is also are correct - the 2008 army books can spam so much killing blow or flaming attacks the banner doesn't work well.
 

rocdocta

Ghoul
Aug 22, 2007
166
dabber said:
The Drakenhoff banner is close to an auto-win against an army book made before 2008. Killing blow is rare, flaming attacks are rare ... they pretty much cannot hurt the unit. Drakenhoff Black Knights facing an older book that has Spirit of the Forge are vaguely killable, but even they need a good roll. But Cromenon is also are correct - the 2008 army books can spam so much killing blow or flaming attacks the banner doesn't work well.

i must disagree with this. 1 unit in an army cannot auto win no matter how good it is. let alone putting a banner in there. most lists have re directors and tar units. blood knights still need to be used well. other wise you have 600 points of a unit stuck in a forest while his 1900 points defeats the rest of your force piece meal.

any lord on a dragon will cause massive dramas for blood knights. hits them in the flank and they are toast.

the drak banner is not over powered. it is just very good. but you pay 125 points for that goodness. thats like a unit of 5 black knights. those 5 bks could be the difference between a win or a loss.
 
Feb 26, 2010
10
I field the drake banner in my unit of 8 Black Knights.
The unit also includes my casty/fighty Vamp Lord.
It's proven extremely useful in this unit during the past three games since i placed it there.
 

Johnny B

Grave Guard
Sep 21, 2009
283
London
Its pretty damn good, but I find the better your opponents are, the less useful it becomes. Its just does one thing, whereas other more flexible BSB builds are far more versatile overall.
And even without flaming attacks, its not actually that unfeasible at all for a hard character to kill the Wight King.

Having just faced the new Warriors of Chaos I can say that the banner is very necessary against the new Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors.
Surely you jest. Chaos Warriors are the worst infantry in the game. M4 and 15pts each minimum? In a virtually all-melee army? Sure, they're super hard, they're also super expensive and super slow, with little to no shooting support and are hideously vulnerable to march-blocking as the army has lost access to skirmishers/flyers. Point for point, they are awful. Conversely, you are using the best infantry in the game: Re-raisable, fear-causing, super-reliable, decent points cost and no morale issues.

I agree Chaos Knights are the mutt's nuts in a heavy cav competition, but they don't win games alone.
 

artisturn

Grave Guard
Jun 30, 2009
232
I only use it in large point games of three thousand and higher where I can afford to spend 125 points on a banner.

And when I do bring it I use a Wright King BSB place him in an unit of 23 grave guard with great weapons and the banner of the barrows as long as the BSB isn't killed I hardly have to heal this unit which help offsets this costly combination.

Plus that unit is a meat grinder that just chews up what ever it touches.
 
Nov 6, 2009
143
The Drakenhof Banner is a great choice, but it is over used and is often considered a crutch.

The Banner is priced correctly, but appears way to often. The inclusion of this Army Standard into any unit would almost automatically make the unit carrying this flag a "death-star". By purchasing the Drakenhof Banner, you tie-up a lot of points that could go into other more interesting combos.

Nobody brings the Screaming Banner?
 

subber45

Ghoul
Mar 27, 2008
144
Arkansas , USA
I used the Banner alot, a WHOLE Lot, from day one it was a staple in a 6x3 unit of Great Weapon Grave Guard with a Flying Vampire Lord and Helm to back it up. I quickly discovered that it made me sloppy. I made poor charges, threw it into anything and everything I could. Now I drop it and use the points for other useful things.
Now I am not above reminding my Dark Elf playing brother that it exist whenever his Black Guard uber unit arrives at the table, and I dont mind it in a tournament setting. ( As a personal concession I usually leave the helm at home along with the book of arkhan to balance some)

Long story short, Its GREAT !!! Not the best banner in all of Warhammer, but darned close. Its worst side effect is making your play sloppy cause it makes the Grave Guard/ Black Knights, Blood Knights . So reliable you just expect them to hold up to what ever. Be careful with it.
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
May 17, 2008
3,604
Germany
I've personally used it one time, and reported on here how that banner singlehandedly let my Grave Guard hold up -5 Daemons of Chaos units And a BloodThirster- for over 3 rounds. I was eating Bloodletters for breakfast. A Vampire lord with Blooddrinker, 20 GG with Great WEapons, BSB with the Banner, and a corpse Cart behind with ASF.....Beautiful times.

Of course, the daemon Player didn't challenge, but that was his fault.

In the right hands, the Banner is a great, great utility banner. In the wrong hands, it's a crutch and a point sink. I've seen it do amazing, amazing things, but I've also seen it do absolutely nothing as the BSB gets cannonballed, KB'ed, or otherwise challenged to death.

I still giggle as I remember three units of Bloodletters and a Thirster wailing away at that unit. It made me feel so wonderfully dirty.
 

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