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Dwarven Brainstorm....Without ale?!

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
3,607
#1
Ladies and Gents, I've got a question!

Well, several really, but since I don't have the materials to properly inquire I come here to find my answers. I basically live here anyways. :clown:

Alright, I've decided on rebooting my Dwarves as my next army, as a single purchase a month kind of schedule. I'm still painting my VC's (The neverending tide of Bones....ugh), and getting single models for my Brettonian Carpe Noctem army, and have settled on Dorfs to round things out.

So, here are my questions since I don't have the army book.

Do Dwarfs still have a viable non-overwhelming shooting playstyle, or have they been relegated to a Gunline or Die! format?

Is a Shieldbearer model/Lord mount viable in game? He's just really, really cool to look at when done right.

How are the models themselves? A standard Dwarf Warrior box comes with how many bits/pieces for modification? (Mantic or GW, here) I'm going to be casting my own shields into special designs, and otherwise heavily modifying the force, so I need to know if these models are difficult to work with.

How many artillery pieces are 'Required' in the army? I'm not looking for Competition cheese like Thorek + 4 cannons + gunline 'O Doom, but What seems to be a standard good amount of Artillery?

What are major weaknesses in the Dwarfen army book? I played them veeeery briefly back when I bought two of the Battle for Skull Pass sets, but traded them for Ogres and never looked back.

If I go Warrior/LongBeard/Dwarf-non-shooting-goodness heavy army for around 3K points, how many Bodies would I be looking at? I'm going to be buying from Mantic, AoW, and GW so prices are going to be very variable.

so, yes. Expect to see Dwarves from me in the upcoming months. :)
 

Aegis

Varghulf
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
785
#2
Ladies and Gents, I've got a question!

Well, several really, but since I don't have the materials to properly inquire I come here to find my answers. I basically live here anyways. jester

Alright, I've decided on rebooting my Dwarves as my next army, as a single purchase a month kind of schedule. I'm still painting my VC's (The neverending tide of Bones....ugh), and getting single models for my Brettonian Carpe Noctem army, and have settled on Dorfs to round things out.

So, here are my questions since I don't have the army book.

Do Dwarfs still have a viable non-overwhelming shooting playstyle, or have they been relegated to a Gunline or Die! format?

- Friend of mine at the chicago bunker plays no gunpowder, works rather well, and noone complains how many quarrelers he takes.




Is a Shieldbearer model/Lord mount viable in game? He's just really, really cool to look at when done right.

- yes, but doing so incrases the likelyhood of him dying in combat against elite troops, since they will get more chops back at him.




How are the models themselves? A standard Dwarf Warrior box comes with how many bits/pieces for modification? (Mantic or GW, here) I'm going to be casting my own shields into special designs, and otherwise heavily modifying the force, so I need to know if these models are difficult to work with.

- While i dont have an exact count , i seem to remember there being lots of little leftover bits, from shields... to a pipe hand and a beer stein.



How many artillery pieces are 'Required' in the army? I'm not looking for Competition cheese like Thorek + 4 cannons + gunline 'O Doom, but What seems to be a standard good amount of Artillery?

- This depends on which ones, i usually use a pair of bolt throwers (with appropriate runes.), and maybe a grudge thrower in bigger games

What are major weaknesses in the Dwarfen army book? I played them veeeery briefly back when I bought two of the Battle for Skull Pass sets, but traded them for Ogres and never looked back.

- Movement, they were pretty much NEVER able to charge someone barring a few sneak tricks with a banner / anvil move. The random charge range was a HUGE boost to dwarves.



If I go Warrior/LongBeard/Dwarf-non-shooting-goodness heavy army for around 3K points, how many Bodies would I be looking at? I'm going to be buying from Mantic, AoW, and GW so prices are going to be very variable.

- well.......if you went straight dorf man bodies, 1 thane and hordes of mans....... ~323 dorf mans with shields. (going down by alot when you throw in the obligatory hammerers and ironbreakers.)
 

Anilar

Wight King
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
424
#3
I think the dwarves can do very well without gunline of doom.
They are still rock hard. Warriors with great weapons are relatively cheap and hit like a battering ram. And I believe they can have shields to survive the advance.
That you get charged not that big a deal for you.
You probably would need to have quarrellers and/or handgunners to handle some threats, like fast moving hard hitting flankers, and fliers. Maybe some boltthrowers with runes of hitting fliers very easily.

And you could take a non-boosted cannon or two, to make sure the enemy use time and ressources to take them down. Thou not having them, many armies would have warmachine hunting units without a job, because they would get slaugthered against your warriors.

And a nice sized longbeard ranger unit can make some big trouble deploying as scouts.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
5,229
#4
If you want to know what bits there are, just look on that bitzbox website or google the sprues or something, then you can see for yourself exactly what is there to customise with.
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
3,607
#5
Aegis: Mind sharing a list or two of his if you can get them? I'm almost enchanted by the No Gunpowder idea. I'm not looking for competitive lists, just something that showcases the Dwarves resilient nature. =)

Anilar: Thanks! I like the idea of Great Weapon warriors, but only have a 5+ save is a bit troubling in the new edition of bucketloads of Dice. It's most definitely worth considering though, as I just love me some Dwarf Hammertime.
Also, the Rangers as a scouting unit... Are they allowed to take full command/Characters? If so I could think of some very good ideas for that!

Sanai: Thanks for the tip! I've never actually been on that site, but I'll definitely take a look soon.


Well, it looks like I'm going to try to build Gunpowder-less, smash face, hammertime Dwarves. I'll put up a Plog whenever I get my first models in. =) Next paycheck should be good for an order.
 

Aegis

Varghulf
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
785
#6
Oni i can most certainly try and track him down and get his lists, might take me a few days tho....... working 3rd shift sucks when you need to get a hold of someone.
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
3,607
#7
Not a problem. :) I just wanna get a general feel of what he likes to take, and kind of mathhammer it out to see what units accomplish what in game. Heh, who knows. I might be taking this army so slowly that there will be another book to work with come the time I'm done!
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#8
I think Dwarves have a pretty good boost this edition. Last edition, they needed their guns because in close combat, they would always get charged, their front line damaged/removed, limiting attacks back.

Now, none of that matters. With WS4, T4, and great weapon options, I think Dwarves are top notch. Their charge range, on average, is 1" less. No big deal there. They also have options for mining and scouting, so they are way more mobile this edition. Also, average Dwarf leadership is 9, with the BSB, they are hard to move. They also get a +2 to dispel without taking a wizard, and that can't be removed no matter how many failures they have. Combined with that magic banner, it can be a +3 easy enough. Solid magic defence!

I wouldn't worry too much about putting a dwarf on shield bearers. If you want to protect him, you can make him virtually unkillable (AS1+ rerollable, 4+WS, Immune to KB). Plus, if it looks badass, do it.
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
3,607
#9
Grish said:
I wouldn't worry too much about putting a dwarf on shield bearers. If you want to protect him, you can make him virtually unkillable (AS1+ rerollable, 4+WS, Immune to KB). Plus, if it looks badass, do it.
My thoughts exactly! I have a pretty neat idea for these Dwarfs too, if I can manage to cast/create my own shields. That's critical for what I've got in mind. If it looks Badass, (and if I can) do it!


Basically, as a teaser, the Clans Creed is going to be along the lines of:

Forward the bastions! -or-
The Walls of Karak-Blah Blah march!


And yes, that's going to be a near literal 'Walls' March. :) Tower/Interlocking shields for the win!
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
5,229
#11
Matthewop said:
you have so many questions...
..and you have oh so many answers.

I love the image of a shieldwall advancing steadily, relentlessly on the enemy. Sounds fantastic.
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
3,607
#12
Oh yes, Sanai. Very much the image I'm going for. Tall shields, spiked most likely, with Dwarves hitting over the top or around, or just using the shields spikes to grind down the enemy. And of course, taking a step forward, hard won and over the bodies of their adversaries.

Kinda like Sparta influenced Dwarfs, except with hammers, axes, poleaxes, and hobnailed boots whenever something is alive under their own feet.
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
5,444
#13
I think Great Weapons would serve you better with Dwarves. They're going to be striking last anyways, and the parry save isn't as good as it once was.

Longbeard Rangers with Great Weapons, Core Warriors w. Great Weapons, Hammerers, and perhaps a force of slayers for fun (don't think they're very good, but against monsters they can be OK).

Also, Quarrelers can be quite effective as well. 30" range w. S4 is pretty nasty, and they can be equipped with great weapons as well! Anyways, the concept of a shield wall is interesting, but I think Great Weapons will be actualyl better on the field, this edition. In a few years it may all change and GW may suck. So maybe do half and half?
 
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