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eggsPR

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 28, 2011
1,136
Dublin
You know it's bad when you have to ask questions about the Frequently Asked Questions...

3. Does IoN affect lone characters in range?
A. No.
Define lone characters. Those not in a unit? If the caster is within 6" of a wounded Wight King in the same unit (not lone), does he get a wound back?

4. Does IoN restore only 1 wound on Ethereal and Vampiric things?
A. Yes.
define things... units or models? Relates to raising back 1+Wizard Level regarding Blood Knights.

5. Can Lore of Vampires attribute used to heal other characters?
A. No.

The book says:

"When a spell from Lore of VC is successfully cast, the Wizard (or another friendly model within 12") instantly recovers a single wound lost earlier in battle."

Caster is a Wizard, he's also a character... ETC says u can't heal?

Am I reading all this wrong, or has ION been SUPER nerfed??
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Jan 25, 2012
6,633
California
And this is why the ETC is the worst written and thought out comp pack out there. They take things that are CLEARLY WRITTEN and say no that is not how you play it. The only one they got correct is the first one as the growth would strike his unit before it ever touched him.
 

bigbadbat

Harbinger of Dandelions
True Blood
Jun 14, 2012
1,240
Minneapolis, MN area
Employing a bit of common sense we can see the words "friendly model" are inequivocally nonexclusive.
Any one that argues that is either a whiner or stupid.
The Lore attribute has nothing to do with IoN rules or resurrecting lost warriors!!!!!

Regarding Vampiric or ethereal models, the rule clearly states that "models" with the vampiric or ethereal rule may only ever regain one wound per casting of IoN.

Sooo... A Blood Knight or a Hexwraith is a "model" with one wound. As they are "models" and not units in their own right, they would benefit from 1+ caster level rule for resurrecting lost warriors when targeted by IoN as each "model" is only regaining 1 wound.
This rule applies only to Spirit Hosts, Vargheists, Varghulf "RAW". That is why I use Crypt Horrors, but that is for another thread.

Seems fairly simple, doesn't it?
 

Duke Danse Macabre

The Duke
True Blood
Sep 16, 2010
3,696
Sunderland, United Kingdom
You made me worry they had finally brought out our errata and not a very good one at that.

I hope they do a decent job of it this time, if they clear up this whole blood knight reviving thing as well I will be grateful, people still argue the toss and to be honest it makes games not fun when we have to debate for half an hour.
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Jan 25, 2012
6,633
California
I am 64 inches tall with a full beard. My people never back down from arguments ever. I believe we fought a war with the elves over this very issue.
 

Duke Danse Macabre

The Duke
True Blood
Sep 16, 2010
3,696
Sunderland, United Kingdom
I'm a vamps player arguing with daemon and chaos warrior players.....
We will argue forever because no one is going to die any time soon..... Or at least until we respolve that part of the argument. :thumbsup:

I do Want more blood Knights though.
I have 13 but 18 would be so much nicer, no idea when I get to field them all though.
 

eggsPR

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 28, 2011
1,136
Dublin
Top 3 teams in ETC had VC...

I was there, thankfully I didn't play any VC over the 3 days, but lemme tell ya, they were amazing. Though my Empire partner played against VC 3 times and killed the Vamp Lord in each game (twice cannon sniped after failed LOS, and Final Transmuted into gold once).

The most feared character in the tourny was the QB/RF Vamp Lord, more so than Blood Thirsters and Papa Nurgles.

Turns out that perhaps VC was undercomped?!!? I don;t think so though. I think it was more about not knowing how to play against them.
 

Tamodan Varison

Grave Guard
Dec 5, 2008
288
What a lot of players forget is that other armies are comped too. There's very few things in ETC that can stop a tooled up lord from ravaging their entire army, 'cause those things are comped too! Also, VC ignore a lot of the basic premises that ETC puts (shooting cap? No impact. Unit size cap? Ignored...)
 

eggsPR

Vampire Count
True Blood
Aug 28, 2011
1,136
Dublin
Tamodan Varison said:
What a lot of players forget is that other armies are comped too. There's very few things in ETC that can stop a tooled up lord from ravaging their entire army, 'cause those things are comped too! Also, VC ignore a lot of the basic premises that ETC puts (shooting cap? No impact. Unit size cap? Ignored...)

Very true, though they comped what we could in the shooting phase (screams and such). The 40 model unit doesn;t affect us either, bc we can get 40 zombies and just raise them after the game starts, simple!!
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Jan 25, 2012
6,633
California
I feel they comped screams to hard in the current environment. I mean the spamming of screams is only good in one certain build and even then it is solely match-up dependent.
 

Tamodan Varison

Grave Guard
Dec 5, 2008
288
I feel they comped screams to hard in the current environment. I mean the spamming of screams is only good in one certain build and even then it is solely match-up dependent.

That's the reason it's comped so hard ;) it's very powerful against certain match-ups, and due to the tournament being in teams it can be a very unbalancing factor. Imagine what a scream spam would do to the flying DE list ;)
 

Tamodan Varison

Grave Guard
Dec 5, 2008
288
But it's very strong against other builds, Skaven for instance. See, that's why comp is important in ETC. To make sure every rock has at least one pair of scissors, and that every scissors has at least one paper. To do that, you need to remove certain very imbalanced builds.

Now already, 70% is decided in the match-ups. If the buolds would be even more imbalanced, that'd be even more ;) you can be as good a Beastmen player as you want, if I run High Elves uncomped against you, you're gonna lose 95% of the time unless you're a supercomputer. Similarly, I could be Kasparov, you'd beat me with your VC 95% of the time when I'm using Wood Elves, unless you've got some restrictions. Warhammer isn't balanced, and has a big rock-paper scissors element when you've got 2 equally skilled players. A difference in skill is what balances most national/smaller tournaments. When you pit the best aainst each other, there's off course a difference in skill left (my country became 30th/34), but some restrictions are necessary, to avoid people bringing a unit of 100 marauders, of which nobody can claim any points ;)
 

bigbadbat

Harbinger of Dandelions
True Blood
Jun 14, 2012
1,240
Minneapolis, MN area
You can try to create all the balance you want with comps, team play, etc., but at the end of the day there is always the draw.
I equate these types of comps employed to bring balance to putting one layer of plastic wrap loosely around a large, fully filled vessel of water and asking someone to run as fast as they can on stilts and not spill a drop.
It's not going to happen.
The comp does not update itself in such a manner to allow itself to properly balance as power gamers are always finding niches, loopholes, whatever to tip the odds.
As long as there has been competition, there have been people trying to get the upper hand by whatever means necessary.
The only way this could be achieved is upon entry, every team submitted their lists and the committee changed them, after cross referencing every possible matchup, with the rest of the field and then chose matchups.
Why show up?
I believe as a tournament player you bring the most competitive list you think will WIN you the most games, you are going to win some, you are going to get wiped sometimes. That is the nature of competition.
Everyone wants these safety nets in place, which are primarily ego protectors.
Everyone loses sometime.
 

kevin.hopkins7

Black Knight
May 21, 2011
340
Houston,Tx
Risk is fun.. ETC is not. Luckily most of the above posters covered everything I was going to say.(ty) IT is not fair, and it is a bunch of people clinging to 7th ed. Nuff said.

ETC=7.5ed warhammer. A mix of 7th rules with the new(not really) 8th rules.

It is a world wide tournament, and it should be played in 8th edition....... a few changes are alright... but ETC takes it too far.

The winners deserve blue ribbons in having fun!

Thats all.
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Jan 25, 2012
6,633
California
Watched and read some of the reports from this years big ETC thing in Poland. I was appalled with people leaving chaff 6" away from other units then I remembered how the ETC's LOS works and realized most of those people can not play real 8th anymore. That makes Ole Johnny sad
 

Tamodan Varison

Grave Guard
Dec 5, 2008
288
yet again. etc is gay...Defend it somone..I dare you

I can explain you why I think the ETC is an interesting thing, both experience-wise and rules-wise. But if you consider it "gay", it's clear that my point isn't gonna get across, no matter what I do. Luckily for me, I'm straight. Otherwise I might be offended by your comment... ;)
 

Skarsnik the Lord

Crypt Horror
May 1, 2010
561
Finland
kevin.hopkins7 said:
yet again. etc is lame..Defend it somone..I dare you

Why should we defend it? If you think ETC is gay/lame/whatever, then fine, you don't have to play it. Many people think ETC is the best gaming system at the moment and in some countries (like here in Finland) all non-comped tournaments are judged to be kind of silly because of the bad balance between army books and infernally stupid things in the rule book.

I guess it's about the taste, but spewing comments like "ETC is lame, argue with me!" is not very appropriate.
 

Niltag

Ghoul
Feb 9, 2010
137
I dont mint ECT restrictions, as playing as most balanced game as is possible make it more fun, but i agree that some of those restrictions are stupid and it should be rather a little modification of army composition then changing rules totaly.
 

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