Fighting Dark elves (tourney) Need advice.

[Valle]

So I have a bit of experience against Dark elves, but this is a league where you are allowed to tailor your list against the opponent. We are using ETC restrictions, and if you aint familiar with it, it can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i1wJfthKQ4ObS0Mlc1TvVtvfWdB3U7PucH8cGFVuf-E/pub

I have no idea what tricks DE have that might specialize against VC, so I would love some input there. But for my own list I have figured that he will have trouble against the high toughness and AS of the black knights, so I will go for the traditional blender bus. Besides that I will bring a T-bat since he aint got anything in particular that can hurt it, as well as hexwraiths. Although im not sure if it might be better to bring CH and a ME. We are going to play with open lists, so I will know exactly where he will have flaming banner if any, and again the high toughness will cause him problems.

 

[eggsPR]

4 RBTs, crossbows and doom bolts will take out your TG in a turn, so be weary of that.

Yes bring at least 8 CHs depending upon how you play the VC comp. Try and get them into his Executioners if he brings them... sure a couple CHs may die, but the remaining will really hurt them back, plus killing blow is never good to have around your BKs or Blender. If possible, march the CHs 1" away from the executioners, then let him charge you in his turn, so you can ION them back in your turn after damage has been dealt.

If he has flaming witches, throw either the BKs or hexes into them (they never have magic attacks).

I find gaze of nagashing the units of 5 dark riders effective... sometimes it lifts a unit, other times it usually causes at least a panic test.

You won't catch the warlocks so no point reforming and going after them unless he doesn't have MR or wards on his characters... and if you bring Death magic you could snipe them.

I mostly smash up everything bar the warlocks and since I'm in combat I'm not getting doom bolted.

If you want to be really sneaky and have the points to spare, throw in a corpse cart behind the CHs... the ASF on CHs melt executioners (in this case YOU charge HIM) and takes away rerolls from witches... ASF CHs can win against even flaming witches. If you have the points, throw in balefire which makes it very hard for 5 warlocks to get off doombolt without throwing at least 4 PD per casting.

Good luck.

 

[Valle]

4 RBTs, crossbows and doom bolts will take out your TG in a turn, so be weary of that.

Yes bring at least 8 CHs depending upon how you play the VC comp. Try and get them into his Executioners if he brings them... sure a couple CHs may die, but the remaining will really hurt them back, plus killing blow is never good to have around your BKs or Blender. If possible, march the CHs 1" away from the executioners, then let him charge you in his turn, so you can ION them back in your turn after damage has been dealt.

If he has flaming witches, throw either the BKs or hexes into them (they never have magic attacks).

I find gaze of nagashing the units of 5 dark riders effective... sometimes it lifts a unit, other times it usually causes at least a panic test.

You won't catch the warlocks so no point reforming and going after them unless he doesn't have MR or wards on his characters... and if you bring Death magic you could snipe them.

I mostly smash up everything bar the warlocks and since I'm in combat I'm not getting doom bolted.

If you to be really sneaky, throw in a corpse cart behind the CHs... the ASF on CHs melt executioners and takes away rerolls from witches... ASF CHs can win against even flaming witches. If you have the points, throw in balefire which makes it very hard for 5 warlocks to get off doombolt without throwing at least 4 PD per casting.

Good luck.

Good advice as always eggy... Dont you reckon he will try and go for death to snipe my charecters?
I am also going to have to chose between CH and HW as well as CC or ME unfortunately. I wont have points enough for it all.

 

[eggsPR]

Yeah but you should MR so don't worry about death snipes - PSun is what you save your DD for. Plus if you in CC he can't snipe you.

If go CHs and HW... MEs are just like the TG... Large target = no penalty for shooting, plus when the ME blows up (which it will), it takes all your nearby chaff with it.

Under the comp you can field 8 CHs and 10 HW no problem. May even consider 3 vargs behind your back lines to keep the dark riders honest and at a safe distance. Now they are hard to hit because long range, skirmish, and hard cover make even shades needing 6s to hit.

 

[Valle]

Yeah but you should MR so don't worry about death snipes - PSun is what you save your DD for. Plus if you in CC he can't snipe you.

If go CHs and HW... MEs are just like the TG... Large target = no penalty for shooting, plus when the ME blows up (which it will), it takes all your nearby chaff with it.

Under the comp you can field 8 CHs and 10 HW no problem. May even consider 3 vargs behind your back lines to keep the dark riders honest and at a safe distance. Now they are hard to hit because long range, skirmish, and hard cover make even shades needing 6s to hit.

So you wouldnt bring a t-bat? I have been running it through my head and I cant see how CH will ever have the upper hand against executioners... In a horde unit with 34, he will hit with 21. Of those 14 will wound, he will reroll 1's from the 7 that didnt wound which means I should expect 16 wounds, without ME that will be 11 wounds after regen and 3 dead CH. They in return will end up dealing 6 wounds themselves, which means they will lose by 9. To get back from that you will need a really lucky magic round to follow.

 

[eggsPR]

TGs against Elves are sub optimal... what are you going to scream at? They all have high leadership, and they all can shoot at it without penalties.

Why would you run your 8 CHs 2x4 so he can have maximum attacks? I never said that

Deploy them 3 wide, 3 deep and he'll only have 24 attacks... 16 hits, 11 wounds, 7 wounds after regen or 3 CHs.
You then get 18 attacks... 9 hits of which 3 are poison, 6+3 stomps equals another 6 wounds, making it 9 total wounds, he saves 1 from 6+ armour... 8 wounds...

This of course is assuming he passes his fear test and van hels is not up nor hellish vigour (which at least one should be).

It also assumes you don't include a champ on the corner of your 3 wide CHs which forces 6 executioners to only wound a max of 3.

 

[Valle]

TGs against Elves are sub optimal... what are you going to scream at? They all have high leadership, and they all can shoot at it without penalties.

Why would you run your 8 CHs 2x4 so he can have maximum attacks? I never said that

Deploy them 3 wide, 3 deep and he'll only have 24 attacks... 16 hits, 11 wounds, 7 wounds after regen or 3 CHs.
You then get 18 attacks... 9 hits of which 3 are poison, 6+3 stomps equals another 6 wounds, making it 9 total wounds, he saves 1 from 6+ armour... 8 wounds...

This of course is assuming he passes his fear test and van hels is not up nor hellish vigour (which at least one should be).

It also assumes you don't include a champ on the corner of your 3 wide CHs which forces 6 executioners to only wound a max of 3.

I know t-bat will be up against high LD, but it will still deal 4 wounds per scream on average. I have a feeling he will bring a charecter on a dark pegasus, either his lvl 4 or a combat lord if he can afford both. The t-bat is good at keeping stuff like that at bay, since he will stay at a healthy distance, and if he does come close, well lets just say that the t-bat have gotten me allot of points over the years . That said, I see your point, and the part about using a champ to force his attacks is genius... Ill mull it over and make my decision tomorrow... Ill tell you how it went after we have played the game tomorrow night.

 

[eggsPR]

Ok good luck. Remember for less than the price of 1 TG you can get 2 banshees... Each equivalent to a TG with 4 wounds taken, only 3 wounds taken if you have AOTDM on a vamp. And they can't be RBT'ed or doombolted or xbowed... Plus with 2 banshees you're more likely to get a decent roll with 2 samples.

Bc every phase that TG will be dealt wounds, and you don't want every magic phase trying to heal him back up.

Yeah deploy those CHs 3 wide and all of a sudden those executioners for look so tough

 

[Valle]

Ok good luck. Remember for less than the price of 1 TG you can get 2 banshees... Each equivalent to a TG with 4 wounds taken, only 3 wounds taken if you have AOTDM on a vamp. And they can't be RBT'ed or doombolted or xbowed... Plus with 2 banshees you're more likely to get a decent roll with 2 samples.

Bc every phase that TG will be dealt wounds, and you don't want every magic phase trying to heal him back up.

Yeah deploy those CHs 3 wide and all of a sudden those executioners for look so tough

True, but btw, remember that he wounds on anything but 1's or 2's, and with murderous prowness he rerolls the 1's. So he will deal more wounds than in the earlier mathhammer we made.

 

[Skittelz1981]

i dont know how many points you guys play and DE are a very versatile army with many possibilities and options so its kind of hard to tell. What he brings to the table might not be what your list can go up against.
1 thing i swear by is a hellsteed vamplord tooled exclusively for combat, make it a caster if you want and can but his primary focus is combat.




Yesterday i lost a 3k battle against them only because he had Lore of Darkness, Lore of Beasts and the doomlockspells. At a certain point he got off: Word of Pain, Wyssans wildform and Soulblight. that was the end of my blackknights+vamplord and the end of the battle. (he rolled 12 on winds of magic :S)

That combination of Lores is just retardly effective....

 

[Demian]

...but at 3000 you could have fielded so many terrorgheists! that their screams could beckon more screams! and everyone would've been so happy! or sad! Also, don't know if you could have won that one, yet it would have been beautiful....

Also, I find that our army does much better at higher points games. No need to risk the V.Lord with the castings, you can queeze a M. Necromancer along with him and with a much better lore (death). And tons and tons of baby necros to have an arcane item party (Dispel Scroll, Scroll of Shielding, Book of Arkhan, Cursed Book), and of course, to field that many killy units like... Crypt Horror Hordes, Grave Guard Hordes with 2x Mortis Engines!

Too bad he got those 3 spells off and you couldn't dispel em D: