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Fighting Khorne

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Aug 15, 2007
Messages
770
#1
I am currently in a campaign, which includes a Khorne player.
He loves his Minotaurs especially..
I have not fought Khorne in a while and this player is new to our group and quite good.
EvC has fought him and knows this...

Anway so far he has been slaughtering the other races in the campaign but in our first battle (500 points) I managed a minor loss with some good rolls from my Hosts versus his Flesh hounds and my ghouls versus his marauder horsemen and eventually his champion.

However I need to beat him and would like some advice, lets say around the 1K mark.
Problems I have are magic attacks from his furies (these guys could rip apart my hosts who in turn I see as very good minotaur blockers.
The amount of dispel dice he has..
The high attacks and T of his beasties...

I'm thinking cause there is no shooting to worry about, that I should use GG and BK and Hosts, need something to take out those furies though.... Big problem I have is I dont have the chaos army books so I cant do my usual research, so any advice peoples?
 
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#2
you could try with one or two small unit(s) of Ghuls to provent him form charging your host. I think the Ghuls would win a fight against the furies as they "only" have one A S4.

hope this helps, Cheers

Lord Aldrek
 

Master Vampire

Master Necromancer
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#3
Khorne is funny in a way that you can redirect their charges... All hail Frenzy :smile:

I bet he doesn't use Chosen Khorne Knights then... Too bad; they're the most funny to redirect charges.

Furies are indeed nasty in your case. Perhaps a magic missile will do?
 
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#4
Oh he uses Knights as well, yep got to think of redirecting, only problem is I need to have enough stuff to left to kill his 'weaker' units, only playing small points here.

And a MM would be nice but the staff does not do anough damage and I only have 1 in 6 chance of getting GON.
 
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#5
When playing Khorne, always try to use frenzy against him, tie up his heavy hitters with small, expendable raised units of zombies, poisoned attacks work well against minotaurs, so use some ghouls for that, does he give his minotaurs GWs or AHWs?
 
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#6
He gives them GW's, yes ghouls seem to be in, as a screen for the hosts and v good for his minotaurs...
 
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#7
Another thing to consider is Etheral troops, it sounds like your opponent likes to spend most their points on units, since his units don't have magical attacks, take some spirit hosts and a banshee, maybe even consider taking a black coach, since chaos doesn't have any cannons at its disposal (and not that many S7 attacks either ^^)
 
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#8
Yeah as stated I am def going to take hosts, Banshee not much point thought as it would get ripped to shreds and not have many targets.
Did not think of the coach however, could be useful, especially if it gets some nice squishy marauders to charge first..
 
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#9
khorne can be very bad agianst VC. As suggested before ghouls or fell bats are good for tying up the furies. I think you need grave guard agianst khorne and lots of fast units. GG for their strength and killing blow and fast units to get them where you need his units.

magic is near pointless because he is gonna have a lot of dispel dice so dont rely on your necro as much. power v.s. power is how i usually take it down......that doesnt end up well sometimes......
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
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#10
Steer well away from that, the Minotaurs will chop the Coach into bits with 4 attacks each at S7, and the Furies will of course tear apart your Spirit Hosts... I've charged Furies with Ghosts and lost in spite of attacking first. I think small units of Ghouls are your best bet against all this Khorne, just units of 5 or 6. Plus the more smaller units you have, the better your deployment will be.

Unfortunately you have to be realistic and you won't be tying up Khornate Minotaurs or Chosen Knights with anything you can bring, short of 40 Zombies (In which case, when the Minos have made their points back)...
 

Wolf Fang

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#11
Seems like you have a tough job ahead. :)
I'm would suggest going along the lines of an Elite Blood Dragon host with GG and BK to match the martial prowess of the Khorne units and filling in the rest of the points with Ghouls and zombies. :)
As long as you can manage a fair few return wound (2-3) you should be able to win combat through static combat resolution. :)

Cheers, Wolfie
 
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#12
Any chance you could also post up a rough list of the sort of army you face, it would make giving advice a bit easier, knowing what units you would be up against and all...
 

Lord Fear

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#13
Oh and if you want to psyche him out next time you play him, ask him how well his Khorne army did against my High Elves... might want to ask about "Deirdre the Dragon" in particular :D
 
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#14
EvC said:
Oh and if you want to psyche him out next time you play him, ask him how well his Khorne army did against my High Elves... might want to ask about "Deirdre the Dragon" in particular :D

I did and he was not happy :biggrin:

Anyway so we played at 1500 points, he brought along his demon as general with some beastmen, minotaurs, 2 units of bloodletters, furies and flesh hounds. I wasa not quiet geared up for so many demons.
I had big unit of skeles, big unit of GG, lots of wolves, 9 of them led by Torst VC in wolf form, 2 necros, 3 hosts and 20 ghouls in two units.
It started so well with my big wolf unit charging hid demon, one of the wolves actually wounded it, now Torst just needed to do the business with his GW, 2 hits but then I just needed 2's to wound and I got nothing.
My Host and ghouls saw off his big screen of beastmen but then ran into his minotaurs and were then counter charged in the flank by bloodletters, now it all started to go wrong, my necros started to miscast (5 in total), my book ran out turn one, My rolling to hit/wound was absolutely bog awful. The hosts and ghouls lost and only the ghouls were left to flee, this however did drag the minotaurs and bloodletters into the trees and out of the game.
The Demon killed Torst and then a big CC started between Demon, Bloodletters, Skeles and GG, this went on till turn 6 and I nearly won it, the demon so close to popping, but in the end I ran out of troops, the GG performing admirabley but just not good enough, the Bloodletters are just so good! :evil:
So in the end a massacre to him but it was actually so close and if it had not been for the worst dice I have ever rolled, it could have been different! :rolleyes:

A few things rattle me thought, bringing a Demon at 1500 points is a tadge power gamer!
And I hate having to have a necro lead at 1500, having to have him in a bunker and keep him so close to other units to protect him from flyers is a major pain.

I think GG proved their worth and the ghouls (even thought they rolled so bad). Hosts are out, too much that can hurt them.
I have a potential re-match against him on Sunday when we go see what the Mitcham Marauders are like. If we dont get a 2 v 2 battle, we will fight our selves again at 2K.
So keep that advice coming cause against a decent opponent I think Khorne are the hardest opposition for VC...
 

Lord Fear

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#15
Nah, it's not really powergaming (Well, a mostly Daemon list, maybe), it's just one guy having a really good model to use, and using it. An Exalted Daemon is worth two hero slots I believe so it really restricts him- and the two times he's used his Daemon Prince against me, it's died in turn one (Hehehehe). I'm glad I didn't advise you on his army list, I'd forgotten he'd headed home to pick up his old stuff, like more Bloodletters. I think he really really really wanted a win after I massacred him last week and he said he might take a power list...

Still need to sort out a game against ye sometime Olaf!
 

logan054

Master Necromancer
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#16
FatOlaf said:
A few things rattle me thought, bringing a Demon at 1500 points is a tadge power gamer!
I think i need to send lend you the army books then, and infantry army with khorne is hardly power gaming and a exalted daemon hardly has that many stats that above a normal hero and cant have a save better than a 4+ and has no save against magic weapons or spells

EVC - i will get your dragon next time ;)
 
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#17
EvC said:
Nah, it's not really powergaming (Well, a mostly Daemon list, maybe), it's just one guy having a really good model to use, and using it. ...

Still need to sort out a game against ye sometime Olaf!
I know, I knew he would come look here so it was a small wind up, the bloodletters were the ones who did me more damage than anything.
And yes we do need to sort that game out, hopefully sooner rather than later..

logan054 said:
[I think i need to send lend you the army books then, and infantry army with khorne is hardly power gaming and a exalted daemon hardly has that many stats that above a normal hero and cant have a save better than a 4+ and has no save against magic weapons or spells

Again, only a small wind up, I think it's the whole flying hero thing thats all, at 1500 points I have to have a very vulnerable necro as general and when you have this giang flying demon around it can get very un-nerving. Big problem with under 2K Vc lists...
 

logan054

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#18
I think someone is just to use to winning ;) its ok, i made a topic for you on warseer :tongue: I know your just upset that even with my ward save negated by your grave guard you still couldnt wound the exalted and bloodletters :tongue: Anyways as i said that big flying hero is 300pts and stats not much different to the 100pt hero and on a roll of 9+ on instability he dies and if you win combat by say 3 (which isnt hard) he has a massive chance of popping, you forget that in under 2k i cant have leadership 9 either.

btw i have noticed you havent posted up any of the battles you lost yet, tut tut mr
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#19
A tough nut to crack, particularly at 2k if a daemon lord turns up. A Count or Lord will at least balance this to an extent.

I agree that ethereals are a point sink against daemons (I found the same against the Woodland Host army I played).

You could consider taking One or more casters with Lore of Death, which has more magic missiles. A trade-off vs IoN and other spells, but he will need to look to dispel the mm, so more chance of getting the necromantic spells off. Other advice above is good, dependant on what turns up.

Other than that, I would suggest either treating your dice nicely (comfy cushion in front of the TV, clean and polish, etc :biggrin:) until the game, as they seem to be unhappy with you at the moment. Failing that, stick some on pikes and show the rest what will happen if they do not behave. :lol:

Good luck
 
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#20
logan054 said:
I think someone is just to use to winning

btw i have noticed you havent posted up any of the battles you lost yet, tut tut mr
I never used to beat my other Khorne opponent with VC either, To me such a hard opponent for VC.
And as for not posting BR's for those that's because I'm way behind on my BR's, the 4K one first then the campaign.
My sig tells the story in the meantime...


Skaramak von Carstein said:
You could consider taking One or more casters with Lore of Death, which has more magic missiles. A trade-off vs IoN and other spells, but he will need to look to dispel the mm, so more chance of getting the necromantic spells off. Other advice above is good, dependant on what turns up.

Other than that, I would suggest either treating your dice nicely (comfy cushion in front of the TV, clean and polish, etc :biggrin:) until the game, as they seem to be unhappy with you at the moment. Failing that, stick some on pikes and show the rest what will happen if they do not behave. :lol:

Good luck

A more defensive approach might be the way forwards, have to mull on that one.
And yes I have had half my dice executed as an example to the others..
 

logan054

Master Necromancer
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#21
FatOlaf said:
logan054 said:
I think someone is just to use to winning

btw i have noticed you havent posted up any of the battles you lost yet, tut tut mr
I never used to beat my other Khorne opponent with VC either, To me such a hard opponent for VC.
And as for not posting BR's for those that's because I'm way behind on my BR's, the 4K one first then the campaign.
My sig tells the story in the meantime...
Its just wind up mate :tongue:


Skaramak von Carstein said:
You could consider taking One or more casters with Lore of Death, which has more magic missiles. A trade-off vs IoN and other spells, but he will need to look to dispel the mm, so more chance of getting the necromantic spells off. Other advice above is good, dependant on what turns up.

Other than that, I would suggest either treating your dice nicely (comfy cushion in front of the TV, clean and polish, etc :biggrin:) until the game, as they seem to be unhappy with you at the moment. Failing that, stick some on pikes and show the rest what will happen if they do not behave. :lol:

Good luck

A more defensive approach might be the way forwards, have to mull on that one.
And yes I have had half my dice executed as an example to the others..
[/quote]

I will just something here, if i go khorne daemon heavy again then magic missile isnt the way forward as most of my units will have magic resistance combined with a fair amount of dispel dice, i will give the chaos books tomorrow when we finish at mitcham marauders
 

Skaramak von Carstein

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#22
logan054 said:
I will just something here, if i go khorne daemon heavy again then magic missile isnt the way forward as most of my units will have magic resistance combined with a fair amount of dispel dice, i will give the chaos books tomorrow when we finish at mitcham marauders
Aarg - that is horrible :evil:!!
 
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#23
Yeah forgot about all that MR, see what I mean, Khorne seem to have an answer for eveything, it's the only Chaos army that gives me trouble.
Has anyone out there had a good run against Khorne using VC?
(and remember he's watching!)
 

logan054

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#24
Yeah well atleast im giving your constructive comments here, i think have to bear in min chaos have alot of magic items that provide magis resistance as well

HoC items

collar of khorne magic resistance of two, spelleater shield, magic resistance 2 & on a 4+ destroys the spell caste against it.

BoC items

Pelt of dark young magic resistance 1

boodletters magic resistance 1
flesh hounds magic resistance 2
blood thirster 2
daemon prince and exalted daemon can also be upgraded to have mr 2

On average you can expect around 7-10 dispel dice in a 2k game depending how friendly the chaos player is, also fear isnt all that useful, warriors and knights can be given the banner or rage so they dont lose their frenzy and thus ignore your fear.

The thing with chaos is general is you cant bank on someone taking unit x, y and z

Last game i didnt take my knights and really only used beasts as i didnt have enough points to make a proper 1.6k daemon list. other things you should consider when facing a khorne player

Giants, these are actually slightly better than normal ones, they can be upgraded to roll twice a turn on the attack chart, dragon ogre, faster than minotaurs with a 4+ save and strength 7, your average unit having 9-12 attacks at ws4 with 4 wounds each.

heres something that you should bear in mind however that works in your favor, if a chaos player went marauder heavy having them lead by khorne champions he loses his immunity to psychology (so atleats you gain back the advantage of fear).

I have played vampire before and i found necrach the hardest to deal with magic wise, never had a problem with blood dragons or carstein.

Here a few ideas about units choices

Grave guard - just dont bother, your better off with skeletons, you can top them up, grave guard a huge point like all elite infantry.

Black knights - I think with banner of the barrows they can actually do something, why do you all bother giving white lords sword of kings, he has what 2/3 attacks, wouldnt he better off with strength strength 6 say from a lance, its the cheapest way to get good strength and with the unit you dont want to banking on being bogged down.

Zombies - they are awful against chaos. hell even if they charge chaos warriors you can bet the front rank will be chopped down before it strikes thanks to brain dead.

Spirit hosts - against me pretty crappy, against other players they are pretty good, alot of players wont mix mortals/beasts etc, you just got jammy once!

Ghouls - if against infantry based armies these are just great, infantry armies find any skirimsher a pain in the arse, even more so if you lack magic and shooting.

Now thats all im going to say cos i think thats enough help from the enemy :tongue: i will see you 2morro ol, EvC, until next time...
 
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#25
logan054 said:
Grave guard - just dont bother, your better off with skeletons, you can top them up, grave guard a huge point like all elite infantry.
But in my last battle the GG were the only unit to have actually done something, not so sure about dropping them

why do you all bother giving white lords sword of kings, he has what 2/3 attacks, wouldnt he better off with strength strength 6 say from a lance
Because 3 attacks that killing blow on a 5 or 6 is awesome!

Zombies - they are awful against chaos. hell even if they charge chaos warriors you can bet the front rank will be chopped down before it strikes thanks to brain dead.
Fully agree

And I am wondering about the bloodline side of things, I wonder if Necrach is the way to go?
 
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