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Fighting Khorne

logan054

Master Necromancer
True Blood
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Aug 16, 2007
Messages
2,523
#26
FatOlaf said:
logan054 said:
Grave guard - just dont bother, your better off with skeletons, you can top them up, grave guard a huge point like all elite infantry.
But in my last battle the GG were the only unit to have actually done something, not so sure about dropping them
You were fighting bloodletters in the flank, thats all they did and i still had 9 of 15 left at the end of the battle, yes you had a exalted daemon in the flank however they arnt all that good, you nearly killed it. The sad thing is that elite infantry cost far to many points, they simply lack the attacks to win combats, skeletons are far better.

why do you all bother giving white lords sword of kings, he has what 2/3 attacks, wouldnt he better off with strength strength 6 say from a lance
Because 3 attacks that killing blow on a 5 or 6 is awesome!
Big whoppie, you wound the infantry on a 4+, i think on a 2+ is better giving you points for some protection or what not, that strength 6 still has killing blow anyways.

And I am wondering about the bloodline side of things, I wonder if Necrach is the way to go?
Yes and no, im not a big fan of them myself, the models are awful and to become powerful wizards your losing you magic item allowence for extra spell level and also your now hitting most of my things on 4+ thanks to drop in ws. My mortal exalted usually make short work of them in combat.
 
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#27
logan054 said:
The sad thing is that elite infantry cost far to many points, they simply lack the attacks to win combats, skeletons are far better.

But are they, Skeletons with L/A cost 10 points, GG with shield cost 13, you get a 3+AS in CC, T4 and Killing blow for 3 extra points, yes you cant raise them but then again with the amount of DD Khorne has, you cant rely on that anyway.
What do the other VC generals think?
Against Khorne, Skeletons or GG???
 

logan054

Master Necromancer
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#28
you magic phases havent been that bad so far against my khorne, dont you have magic weapons that allow you to create new skeletons anyways, skeletons are about 60/70 points cheaper for a unit of 20? I have found every point counts, last game you just had some real bad rolls with your undead. It isnt just grave guard that suck, its elite infantry, hell bloodletters arnt all that amazing and they cost 16pts each, have bugger all armour and T3.

I dont know why you are moaning about all my dispel dice, i had 5 in a 1.5k game, thats very light and i seem to remember you having 7 power dice? (It was poor rolls rather than my list being geared to face you) I think even EvC will agree that i use rather tame lists. Anyways im just trying to help, i think personally i have posted alot of information that really isnt in my best interest if i wish to continue beating your vampire count.

I think the thing you have to bear in mind is that any heavy magic army that faces a khorne list is going to struggle when its whole momentum is dependent on it. Khorne is inherently a anti magic army, sadly warhammer is very rock, paper scissors.

*edit*
Now yeah i use elite infantry in my list, i dont use them because they are the best option, i use them cos i think it fits the fluff more, if wanted to ignore this then i would just go khorne knight + minotaur. Now if your happy with yours be it for the models or they fit your style of play then cool, im just throwing in some ideas to make you list better which inturn will make our games far better and hopefull this will stream over to richie and mark (even if i hate fecking organ cannons!)
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
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#29
You say every point counts, but considering you were 80 points under, it just shows you don't have to squeeze every point in to win! A small unit of Grave Guard could work, especially if you focus them in the right place...

Sword of Kings is only really a must for Wight Lord when they're Battle Standard Bearers, as they can't take a lance in that case. But it's certainly worth the points.
 
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#30
logan054 said:
It isnt just grave guard that suck, its elite infantry, hell bloodletters arnt all that amazing and they cost 16pts each, have bugger all armour and T3.
I still dont think GG suck but on the whole there is a lot of crap Elite out here.

I dont know why you are moaning about all my dispel dice, i had 5 in a 1.5k game, thats very light and i seem to remember you having 7 power dice? (It was poor rolls rather than my list being geared to face you) I think even EvC will agree that i use rather tame lists. Anyways im just trying to help, i think personally i have posted alot of information that really isnt in my best interest if i wish to continue beating your vampire count.
I'm not moaning about your number of DD, it's the number that can be generated that I am worried about and bearing in mind I already have Dwarves and a very anti magic Empire army to face, it can prove irksome..
I like what you have posted fella, but it's not really been help as such, more a list of what makes Khorne so damm good, that's why I've been asking for advice off any VC generals, but does not seem to be many out there with a good track record..


Now yeah i use elite infantry in my list, i dont use them because they are the best option, i use them cos i think it fits the fluff more, if wanted to ignore this then i would just go khorne knight + minotaur. Now if your happy with yours be it for the models or they fit your style of play then cool'
No and I like the fact you play fluffy and I try to as well but then again we both want to rule the world....MU hA HA Ha hA

EvC said:
You say every point counts, but considering you were 80 points under, it just shows you don't have to squeeze every point in to win!
Who was 80 under?
 

Master Vampire

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#31
I just think you had a hard battle.

I can't imagine you can't beat Khorne at 1.5k.

The main swamp tactics should work, as well as Grave Guard and Black Knights to negate Daemonic Saves.

The Bloodletters might be nasty, but a points sink as well. You should greatly outnumber this opponent. Dunno if Bloodletters are ItP, but perhaps a Banshee scream could work?

Add in that some units have Frenzy and you'll have a lot of fun redirecting.
 
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#32
Count Guillaume said:
I just think you had a hard battle.

I can't imagine you can't beat Khorne at 1.5k.

The main swamp tactics should work, as well as Grave Guard and Black Knights to negate Daemonic Saves.

The Bloodletters might be nasty, but a points sink as well. You should greatly outnumber this opponent. Dunno if Bloodletters are ItP, but perhaps a Banshee scream could work?

Add in that some units have Frenzy and you'll have a lot of fun redirecting.
I didn't say I cant, I just did'nt do it, this time, just want some advice for next time.
I really dont think swamp tactics work, each MSU unit of Khorne I faced is more than capable of taking on a big Zombie unit, plus they are all so close together, that it is hard not to get flanked etc.
I agree with the use of BK, a unit I did not try last time, I face so much Empire Cavalry that I have dropped my BK in favour of big tarpits, but I think I will get them out of retirement next battle.
As for Demons, they are all ItP I think, since they have frenzy but I'm not sure, I really cant see a Banshee being able to scream at a Demon. Are they ItP? Anyone..
 

Lord Fear

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#34
Yeah, they're not much use.

Mark said his army list was about 80 points under, think that was when he was trolling at warseer though :tongue:
 
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#35
EvC said:
Yeah, they're not much use.

Mark said his army list was about 80 points under, think that was when he was trolling at warseer though :tongue:

Oh right, not read his one at Warseer yet, must go have a look see..

EvC can you put link up, cant find it?
 

logan054

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#36
EvC said:
Yeah, they're not much use.

Mark said his army list was about 80 points under, think that was when he was trolling at warseer though :tongue:
i was not trolling, i providing valid arguments that just happened to be against mr arthritis (or what ever his name is), banshees really have to be the worst choice against a khorne player. Now a note on bloodletters, they suck just as chaos warriors do, i dont see why your so worried about them, they dont even generate dispel dice. I have noticed one thing when im playing you, you try and lead units to the side and then ignore them, great just problem, they are alive and still generating dispel dice, as long as they unit is walking about and stopping your magic its earning its points back, thats the beauty.

Black knights are really great against chaos however on a side not is i do a daenomic legion my aura is upgraded to a ward save so you black knights dont negate the save (frankly a 5+ isnt that great).

Chaos have better things to worry about

Chosen knights
dragon ogres
minotaurs
chariots
marauders with a exalted
fuires
flesh hounds
marauder horsemen (you saw how i used them against rich :) )

As with everyone who faces chaos you really worry about the wrong stuff, everyone see these units and is like OMFG, it frenzied, now im not trying to give you guys to much help but im hoping im setting you on the right track atleast

Corrections on daemons, the simplest way to think of it that they are unbreakable unless they pop (think of it like crumble), frenzy has nothing to do with it.

anyways if you want a 2k game round at mine dude just let me know (no chance in hell its gona happen during mighty empires night).
 
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#37
logan054 said:
anyways if you want a 2k game round at mine dude just let me know (no chance in hell its gona happen during mighty empires night).
Agree never enough time on campaign night and I will take you on at 2K soon, very soon Mu Hahah aha ha (evil nervous laugh)

As for your Warseer thread, put link down, I wanna read it...
 

logan054

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#38
http://warseer.com/forums/fantasy-general-discussion/98797-is-a-exalted-daemon-power-gaming-in-1-5k.html

here you go :tongue: didnt last long, ah well! just let me know when you want your rematch
 

DarkHand6

Grave Guard
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Aug 12, 2007
Messages
244
#39
FatOlaf said:
And a MM would be nice but the staff does not do anough damage and I only have 1 in 6 chance of getting GON.
if you feel adventurous take 2 necros and have a lore of death (my personal favourite lore) that should help

EvC said:
Steer well away from that, the Minotaurs will chop the Coach into bits with 4 attacks each at S7, and the Furies will of course tear apart your Spirit Hosts...
The minos will only be S6 with GWs so less of a roblem there but still not great.

Personally i would atke a necro bunker, 5 BKs, SH (x3 probably), a banshee and 2 necros. Oh and as many ghould as possible.
I would then take death and spend the first two turns pounding furies with MMs.
SHs to confront minos, ghould to redirect other stuff and BKs to charge in and lay the smacketh down.
 
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#40
This is an old thread, but when I read it, I just had to put my $0.02...

I played my VC against a khorne army a while back at 2000pts. I was pretty worried about the CC, the ItP and the DD, so I played my army differently.

This is what I played (approx)

Blood Dragon Lord on winged nightmare, maxed with powers...
3 units of 6 ghouls
5 units of 5 wolves
4 units of 6 Black nights, full command no barding... for the extra inch charge.
1 Black coach.
1 unit of zombies.

I started my army in the middle centered around my general.

Sent my wolves marching/redirecting His stuff all over the place...

Kept my Coach away from his lord and minautors.

The center was emptied by the end of turn 2 as all his troops were trying to get back in the middle after chasing ghouls and wolves... My Lord and zombies ganged his lord and knigths, then, my lord simply picked off the few other units I thought he could handle alone, while raising zombie speed bumps for the rest of his army...

You should have seen his face, I don't think he made 1 movement decision in the whole game.

SOLID VICTORY VC!!!!
 
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#41
Yes sounds about the right way to do it, having beaten Khorne twice in a row now (admittedly not with VC), I am feeling pretty confident of giving it a good go with my VC....
 

Lord Fear

Master Vampire
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#42
Beating Khornate armies with sneaky tailored lists is one thing (A Winged Nightmare, unbarded Knights, no magic defence, yeah well done there), but you should be fighting with your regular lists if you want the real glory of victory over Chaos.
 

logan054

Master Necromancer
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#43
FatOlaf said:
Yes sounds about the right way to do it, having beaten Khorne twice in a row now (admittedly not with VC), I am feeling pretty confident of giving it a good go with my VC....
Im dont wanna sound arrogant here dude but you beat a marauder list with pretty much everything you have moaned about removed with a skaven list heavily tailored to face chaos, was it that surprising?

EVC I thought Von Carstein was your regal list? unless what you mean is chaos rather than Khorne as really Gods and bloodlines are the same thing.
 

logan054

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#45
that i do, what can i say, im tired, i work fulltime, it happens, still i think thats a rather bold statement to make, when exactly did you regular list become lahmian again?
 

Lord Fear

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#46
Because at the end of a campaign that I "won", I fancied a change after two years playing the same army and acquired a great model that made a perfect Lahmian Vampire. Plus it stopped me turning to the dark side and using a special character in my regular army ;)

What exactly is the bold statement? That winning with an all-comers list is better than winning after tailoring a list to defeat a specific opponent (And the most tailoring I've ever done is to swap dispel scrolls for power stones after you said you'd be fine with that :D )?
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
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#47
EvC said:
Beating Khornate armies with sneaky tailored lists is one thing (A Winged Nightmare, unbarded Knights, no magic defence, yeah well done there), but you should be fighting with your regular lists if you want the real glory of victory over Chaos.
Hear hear!

I tend to have more problems with Beastmen, than mortal chaos armies. Pure Khorne are usually easy fights, but there are grades in Hell, depends quite a lot on your respective builds. Generally speaking, auxiliary heavy with good punch is better than magic heavy.
 
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#48
@ EvC... Obviously, beating someone with an all-comers list is more satisfying, but it's really only fair if your opponent is bringing an all-comers list too.

My friends and I hold 2 types of gaming nights, if we have more than 1 pair of players, we all make all-comers lists (using GT rules, plus special charaters are forbidden) and randomly pick who we play against once we get there. If only 1 pair of players are present, and we know who we are playing against we usually play a "Bring Your Worst" type of game where anything goes... (Special Characters, DoW etc...)

That being said; my friend, who plays chaos mortals (mostly tzeench and khorne) with some beasts and deamons, had told me that the next time he would play against my VC, hewould bring an all-khorne army to "nullify my annoying necromancy magic".

That's why I tailored my army that way, and it cost him the game.
 
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#49
logan054 said:
Im dont wanna sound arrogant here dude but you beat a marauder list with pretty much everything you have moaned about removed with a skaven list heavily tailored to face chaos, was it that surprising?

Well actually the Skaven list was tailored to go against a hard core chaos list, knight etc, I was actually worried when I saw all that rank and file out there. I think the good dice I had that day with my Jezzails, Ratlings etc, what ever you had put out there would have resembled swiss cheese..

But again you misunderstand me, I mean that I have learned enough from playing you, seeing EvC against you and me losing against you with other races, not be so scared of Khorne. I have seen what works and what doesn't, and think I could make a good all round Vc list now that could hold it's own against Khorne amongst others.

And before you say it, I will accept the challenge (after I have found somewhere to live)! :mrgreen:
 

logan054

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#50
Fatolaf -Yeah i did notice it was tailored to go against a hardcore chaos list, cant say i have every used one either so im not sure why you would tailor a list to go against one (honestly a list with chaos warriors in isnt hardcore, they are about about as bad as bloodletters!) besides im not going to build one, its about as much to use as watching paint dry. I totally agree no matter what i used it would have been the same result, thats beauty of skaven warmachines i guess, they never seem to blow up. Im glad you accept the challenge, it should be interesting :)


EvC - if you say so ;) btw next time you come round your not going near my models! i have enough stuff to repair after last time :( Still next time i will get you.

kaulem - i cant see how you would enjoy that type of game, i really cant.
 
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